1H vs 2H (And Melee in General)

Prometheus

Green Slime
I'd like to preface this post by saying I've put in a comparatively paltry 8 hours into this game, compared with many others. Enough to run through the story and experiment w/ 1H and 2H builds. I also played with my friend who ran a mage build so I've seen a variety of the magic the game provides.

Current 1H Abilities: Piercing Dash (Dash forward w/ weapon), Blade Fury (Attack a bunch in front of you), Spirit Slash (AoE), Shadow Clone (Summons a clone that copies your attacks), Dodging Strike (Dash back, then forward dash attack)

Current 2H Abilities: Heroic Slam (Jump forward and smash the ground), Whrilslash (AoE), Titan's Throw (Line attack, need to pick up weapon at end), Smash! (Frontal cleave, knockback), Berserker Style (15% more damage done/taken, atks grant +atk speed)

From a cursory look at the abilities it seems the intent of 1H is to allow for quick and agile strikes, while 2H allows you to gauge the situation and use the appropriate spell.

The issue, as I perceive it, is that the desire to make both trees distinct has resulted in some unnecessary siloing of abilities. Both Shadow Clone and Berserker Style could function as 1H or 2H skills. Whrilslash and Spirit Slash both fill the AoE niche and though the differing implementations are interesting, there's no reason why they couldn't be available to both types; just utilizing different speeds/damages depending on what's equipped. I'm not sure what switches are available on the abilities themselves so that may be difficult.

Heroic Slam, Titan's Throw, Smash!, Piercing Dash, Blade Flurry, and Dodging Strike fit into their respective types, faster, lower damage vs slower, higher damage.

Regarding the actual weapons themselves, I felt the 2H weapons I encountered were rather lacking. The shop weapons, which were the only weapons I encountered outside of the carrot 1H, were reasonable for 1H. However the 2H weapons were comparatively lacking. The Club, despite being buffed in Alabama, will end up on par with the Steel Sword. All it has is a range advantage but overall DPS is lower since it swings slower. Perhaps there were better 2H drops that I never encountered, but it seems silly to run anything buy 1H if the weapons have the same damage. Maybe allow holding of 2H swings for increased damage/power/knockback? Something to differentiate them a bit more.

Perhaps different weapon types? A 2H spear would be cool. You lose the cleave but gain range. Maybe a staff that consumes the sword and shield slot, allowing for faster blocking? I don't know if there's a list somewhere with all the stuff that's eventually planned and I could just be parroting it, but if it exists I was unable to find it. :)

In my opinion 1H is in a pretty good place as it stands. Grabbing attack debuffs and maxing out shadow clones ended up being a really strong combination, specially when pairing with lightning attacks. However I think a Dual Wield (DW) option would be cool. DW tends to be difficult to balance if it's just utilizing two 1H weapons. However I think it could be done by removing use of the shield while DW and instead having a weaker parry option where you take reduced damage, don't have to worry about shields breaking, and get to attack faster.

You could introduce more generic melee abilities and then have a couple of weapon-type specific ones (1H, 2H, DW). This would add more flavor and variety to melee, akin to what casters have now with their four elements.

I, personally, felt the controls were a little clunky (precision was an issue, specially when encountering brambles or wind). The perfect shield mechanic was cool but I never felt I could get it out in time while attacking. My roommate played a mage which resulted in tons of spell effects so I may have missed clearly telegraphed moves, but I tended to get knocked around during combat.

The last point I have is health regen. I found myself letting bosses kill me on first encounter just so I had full HP going in. The random mobs on the way to the boss would always whittle me down and since I had no way to replenish my HP it just felt silly. Maybe a slow health regen option while out of combat (VIA talent?), letting players rest at an inn, or (my personal favorite) lifesteal/spell vamp. It'd be nice to be able to wail on an enemy and play a bit more offensively since my attacks would restore my health.

These are just some thoughts, I'm hoping to get some more game time in (Arcade Mode looks.... interesting) and I love what you guys are doing. The game's way fun!
 

Ardeof

Rabby
1H abilities are a bit limited with dps. Dash is a high scaling skill, along with spirit strike. The others are just extra, mainly.

2H has whirlslash, heroic slam and titan throw. Heroic has highest dps, whirlslash is a good dps and defense skill. Titan throw is kind of like an activatable boomerang at third charge. The dps is high enough as a long range ability. The rest of the skills are extra.

Skills will be balanced later though, and most of this comment will likely be irrelevent later.
 

Prometheus

Green Slime
There's nothing to indicate that these comments will lose relevance, minus claims towards weapon stats and drop chances. If a pattern were adopted of 3 skills per weapon type with a number of general melee skills, you could easily implement weapon specific skill sets or add in DW.

U41MXs0.png

I whipped this up really crappily in Photoshop, but if both sides scrolled you could have a ton of weapon specializations and generic skills.
 

Props

Rabby
I second this. I'm sure they probably will, but 1 & 2 handed skills need to be revamped, limitations and restrictions rearranged and removed.
 

GilVallus

Green Slime
I don't know about you guys, but the prospect of shadow clone berserker style with the lightsaber sounds terrifyingly OP, especially with full crit rate/damage investment
 

Prometheus

Green Slime
I don't know about you guys, but the prospect of shadow clone berserker style with the lightsaber sounds terrifyingly OP, especially with full crit rate/damage investment

Yes, but at what level will you actually get all that? Also, Lightsaber nerfed in latest (upcoming?) patch.
 

GilVallus

Green Slime
Yes, but at what level will you actually get all that? Also, Lightsaber nerfed in latest (upcoming?) patch.
All you'd need is silver in one and gold in the other to be a DPS god; aka 20 or so which is doable by the time you've beaten Winter.
 
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