2 Handed weapon needs a buff, seriously.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by KaiserFlame, Sep 14, 2018.

  1. KaiserFlame

    KaiserFlame Green Slime

    Alright, let's just say that 2 handed weapon is extremely unbalance and really weak compare to the 1 handed weapon. Let's just say that for me, using a 1 handed weapon does 3.4k damage to a mob with flurry or spirit slash, while using a 2 handed weapon, the only skill I can even remotely reach 3k is heroic slam, and that is only if every single hit landed. Why is this happening? Isn't 2 handed weapon suppose to be high risk high damage? The only thing I'm seeing right now is high risk but low damage, this lead to having no point of using 2 handed weapon AT ALL because of it. What I had in mind is to buff the 2 handed weapon to do what it's suppose to be doing, compare to raw damage normal attack with both weapon (red laser sword and toy axe, in this case), I'm doing 150~190 damage per normal attack, while using toy axe, I'm doing 300~370 damage per hit, sounds about right, the 2 handed weapon is doing twice as much damage as the 1 handed, as expected. But what the hell is wrong with the skill?! I'm not even doing remotely close to what 1 handed weapon's damage is, for me, heroic slam do 3k to 3.2k(if crit), and whirlslash do 1.8k(That's literal garbage), which is not even close to being as strong as 1 handed. So why is normal attack "normal" while the skill is "different"? Shouldn't it be doing twice as much damage as 1 handed? Shouldn't it be doing around 6k to 6.5k dmg? I think multiple skills for 2 handed weapon needs rework and buff, at least in my opinion.
    Heroic slam: This is actually a good skill, but the damage is way too low and too slow to actually land all the hits on enemy, even with 200 cast speed. So increase dmg and increase cast speed should be good enough.

    Whirl Slash: Oh boy, this one is one big failure, compare to how cool it looks and how viable it is in combat, the damage is absolute garbage and there's no point of using it in any case because of it's damage, I would recommand increasing damage and longer duration time would be good, the gold charge whirlslash should be extended from 1 seconds to 1.5 or 1.7.

    Titan Throw: This skill has good potential, but the damage of it is also way too long for it to even be remotely useful in actual combat; If you're thinking of using this skill, think again, using fire magic's meteor is way better than this and also would not be blocked by walls. Anyway, I would recommend increase damage(duh) and more range, because this skill will prevent you from moving when charging it, so the range should be at least somehow around like Meteor.

    Smash!: This is probably one of the worst skill, if not the worst. First off, we're fighting a battle against monster and robot, not freaking playing bowling ball, we don't have time to charge and aim the ball just to do half of what Flurry can do in an instant. In this case, remove the ball and increase the damage of the smash itself, since this skill can knock back enemy, charges should be used as increasing the distant of how far the enemy got knocked away, the damage don't have to be so high on impact, the main damage should be put on the wall damage, for example, the smash itself can do like what, 500 damage. but if the enemy got knocked onto a wall, it does high amount of damage and maybe stun the enemy if possible. So increased damage on impact and wall impact, remove balls, and increase range.

    Berserker Style: You guys might think I'm stupid, but this skill is actually a good skill, if not the best in all of these. I was able to do way more damage than I can by using heroic slam in just a short amount of time, but that doesn't mean this skill is perfect, there's still some changes I think can be used to buff it:
    Damage taken increased should be lowered into 55% or 50%, 65% is way too much and the player can hardly take any hits if using it.
    Additional damage should be increase to 50% in stead of 35%, because this skill itself can literally be what the player do the entire gameplay if they dare.(Which is another way of saying this skill is actually good.)
    *This can be ignore if dislike the idea*
    Change skills into stronger skills when in berserker mode, like for example, changing heroic slam into bigger slam, and more explosion on impact. Whirl Slash's time extended to 2.5 seconds of continuance spinning and dealing massive damage to surrendering enemies. Titan throw has even more range, and explode on impact when thrown, if called back by the player, when player caught the weapon, use the AOE damage but without gaining energy back. Smash can be changed to when smashing an enemy into the wall, on impact of the wall, the enemy exploded and dealing explosion damage to the enemy around it, also dealing fire damage.
    *This can be ignore if dislike the idea*
    That's all I really have to say, I'm a 2 handed weapon main, and I really, REALLY want to make 2 handed weapon viable and is actually fun to play with.
  2. I can't help but giggle a little bit reading this. 1-handed melee is actually in a rather non-viable position right now from a damage standpoint (excluding the people with insanely fast hands) compared to 2-handed melee. Another thing that you'd have to consider is stunning potential. Unless I'm wrong, a lot of 2H skills can interrupt enemies like boars, whereas most 1H skills cannot. Knockback is an important consideration when it comes to viability, not just raw damage.

    Don't get me wrong, I agree that 2H should get buffed. Actually, melee needs quite a few buffs in general. From what I've heard, the devs are already aware of the "power gap" between mages and melee users. It'll be addressed at some point in time. We just have to be patient.

    Regarding Berzerk, I think I can agree with a decrease in the amount of damage a Berzerk users receives. Currently, a person using gold zerk while wearing defensive gear (not strongly defensive; just defensive) takes more damage than a mage. That doesn't make much sense to me since melee is still the class getting into close combat (without any disjointed hitboxes) and therefore running the risk of getting hit more often. A decrease to 55% or 50% as you mentioned may work. But I'd have to look at the numbers. Even then, I'm not a dev.
    I'm also interested in the idea of melee skills in Berzerk state being "upgraded" in some way. I think it would be really cool and add something unique to Zerk. It would also give people more of a reason to use it...as some people (cough G, cough) are not interested in sitting around all day shield-cancelling. It just isn't as exciting as using skills or doing...literally anything else. And I think that's reasonable. However, if that idea gets implemented, careful considerations would have to be given to how the melee skills get upgraded damage. When melee gets properly balanced, skills that are upgraded too much might become a bit "OP". Perhaps you could just change how the attacks work without significantly altering their overall damage. That way, there would be an advantage (be it safety, mobility, or whatever else) to using skills in Berzerk without making Berzerk skills too powerful.

    Whirlslash is weak compared to the other 2H skills because it affords the least risk out of all of them. Having a circular hitbox can clear a space around you quite easily. With silver whirlslash, you can even clear a space around you with "more resilient enemies". I wouldn't be against an increase in damage, but I don't know much about the numbers in various scenarios. I'd rather leave that to people more informed, like Pydoyks. Also, you definitely do not want to extend the time frame of whirlslash. Whirlslash has significantly weaker damage and knockback until the final spin. Remaining in that spinning state for a longer period of time means having to wait longer for the stronger final blow. It also makes it more likely that you'll put yourself in vulnerable situations. If you're going to change something, change the speed of the attack and/or its damage. That way you can travel farther if you please or do more damage as you please. The most important thing with gold whirlslash is that the user is able to shield cancel in any direction they please. (Teddy please add this. lol.)

    Again, I don't know a lot about the numbers. And numbers change from enemy to enemy. Dummies are probably a good reference on how to balance things...maybe? So...yeah. Melee should get buffed. 2H melee definitely needs some buffs compared to mage (and maybe compared to a better 1H), but idk how those buffs should play out. Again, there's more to a melee skill than raw damage.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
    Chaldo, KaiserFlame and Tiz like this.
  3. KaiserFlame

    KaiserFlame Green Slime

    Yes! I knew someone would be able to understand how melee users are way more weaker than mage players, I was playing crappy pvp with my mage friends the other day, his meteor and ice spike can both do 500+ damage to me when I am wearing my super defensive gear(110 defense, with mushroom shield), not only did he broke my shield, he also literally take off half of my health bar(500+ damages). It's ridiculous.
  4. The G-Meister

    The G-Meister Giga Slime

    I mean, it's probably not a good idea to draw conclusions from joke commands. The point itself still has ground however.
    Oi, I have hand pains :mad: I'd rather not have to wait for 4 hours to continue a run after beating a room with 2 Elite Bots, a Pecko and a crippling lack of DPS.

    Also hi Kaiser. I'm G and MLG knows me as the close combat mage that 1-shots Arcade rooms using 2H basic attacks because buffing magic does better for your melee right now than buffing melee does. Welcome to the forums, too :D
  5. KaiserFlame

    KaiserFlame Green Slime

    Oh, hello! I specifically made an account on the offical forum to notice the dev that melee is really weak right now, instead of typing it in steam community since I doubt dev would actually go over there and check. Better safe than sorry.
  6. LOL. Well PVP is probably not the best comparison for melee vs. mage. But yeah, there are some crazy things. Earth Spike is even more OP than Meteor too (at least currently). No worries. Most people are aware of the gap. It's just a question on how to manage it. In the meantime, updates are gradually getting released to increase melee's "viability/mobility". Pguarding now gives you interrupt status against an enemy while using the regular attack or a melee skill. This means you can stun elite boars in hardmode and even elite bots! There's also talk about being able to do a "Pguard step" -- being able to quickly move a short distance in one direction immediately after Pguarding. It's supposed to be useful for getting yourself out of a jank situation immediately after Pguarding one attack.
  7. So coming back to this after awhile, I still stand by what I said earlier. Whirlslash could use more damage, but you don't want to be spinning for all eternity...and you need to be able to shield cancel in any direction. The berzerk idea was also really cool.

    I think a lot of these ideas make sense -- even the berzerk improvements. I don't think the smash ball needs to be removed itself. It provides an extra means of doing damage; and you can't smash bosses into walls (though it would be cool if you could). So the ball is kinda necessary for decent dps. It doesn't get in the way of hitting nearby enemies, so there's no harm in keeping the balls.

    I don't think that these ideas alone will solve the problems with 2H melee. But I do think they'd help.

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