Arcade Victory Lap

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Feedback' started by Own, Jan 11, 2017.

  1. Own

    Own Moderator

    You beat Arcade and you're immediately prompted to either save your score and quit, or save your score and lap back through arcade again.

    Enemies get stronger, each area possibly has random groups of enemies from all across the game and you can keep leveling until you inevitably die. Good for getting extra essence/gold for Arcadia? Or just for kicks, since you can't submit score past the initial final floor.
    Teddy likes this.
  2. Teddy

    Teddy Developer Staff Member

    Sounds like an interesting idea for the ultimate longevity :D

    I'm actually interested in exploring using such a system for the main game (akin to Dark Souls new game+). That is, being able to infinitely scale the game, maybe obtaining some manner of currency based off completion % for each run that can be used for purchasing silly things!

    Perhaps Arcade Mode could be a testing ground for getting the scaling right!

    Although there will be like 20 people who'll be able to test it :bag:
  3. xEleaa

    xEleaa Rabby

    It would be a fun idea xD lol , but personally for me I would rather just restart and try again lol!
  4. Own

    Own Moderator

    That encourages tediousness, doing the same thing over and over each run in order to acquire tokens. People will pick the most efficient build to speedrun the game and acquire those tokens, since it's getting increasingly harder. It will get boring and quickly for most, though I probably wouldn't mind it - it'd be an excuse to try to optimize a build. I think I suggested it a while back, but I think an objective-based NG+ mode would be most well received. Especially in terms of encouraging different playstyles of the game, getting the most of what it has to offer by playing in ways they might not normally.


    You've beaten Secrets of Grindea! What now?

    A box pops up at the end of the game, congratulating you and informing you that you have unlocked NewGame+ options. Check them out on the main menu!

    So you go to the main menu and see the new NewGame+ Objectives. You select it and see a long list of new ways to play the game, a token count earned on the side and a token store beneath it for things to spend tokens on. Many objectives are greyed out with a message of "Complete # Objectives!" to display them. Initially you would see a list like...

    Beat The Game: You did it! Objective complete.
    Victory Lap: Select a completed save file. Choose this objective to start from the beginning with all your levels, items, cards and gold! Nothing stands in your way!
    HARDER!: Select a new save file. Choose this objective for all enemies to gain increased DMG, HP and attack speed. When this objective is completed, it becomes HARDER!!, then HARDER!!! and so on with increasingly high enemy stats and a new token each time.
    Two To Tango: Select a new save file. Monsters are always balanced around two players, and boss rooms may only be entered with two people.
    Three Musketeers: Same as Two To Tango, but for three.
    Quartet: Same as Two To Tango, but for four.
    Firestarter: Select a new save file. Begin with 1 skillpoint. Your weapon attacks do 0 damage, you may only choose fire spells.
    Frostcaller: Same as Firestarter, but ice spells.
    Earthquaker: Same as, but earth spells.
    Windbreaker: Same as, but air spells.
    I Like Swords: Select a new save file. Begin with 1 skillpoint. Your weapon attacks do 0 damage, you may only choose 1H skills. (Clones from Shadowclone will do damage as normal.)
    I Like Bigger Swords: Same as I like Swords, but for 2H skills. (If Berserker Mode is active, weapon attacks do damage as normal.)
    Ping-Pong: Select a new save file. Begin with 2 skillpoints. Your weapon attacks do 0 damage. After using a melee skill, melee skills are locked until you use a magic spell and vice versa. (Ex: Dash -> Fireball -> Spirit Slash -> Earthspike, etc)
    By Your Powers Combined: Select a new save file. Begin with 4 skillpoints. Your weapon attacks do 0 damage. After using a fire spell, you must use an ice spell. After ice, earth. After earth, air. After air, fire.
    Genocide Run: Select a new save file. Enemies no longer respawn. If you leave a screen without clearing the enemies, they won't be there when you return. If you die during a wave-based room of enemies, you receive no EXP or drops from enemies when re-attempting the room.
    Pacifist Run: Select a new save file. Your attacks do 0 damage, spells and skills are locked out. Only support spells are available. Touching enemies with your shield gradually drains their HP. Perfect guarding removes a chunk of their HP. You acquire no experience, but your HP increases after each boss.
    Scavenger: Select a new save file. All shops are closed, side-quests unavailable and non-vital chests are empty. You may only use equipment you craft or acquire as an enemy drop.
    I Choose You: Select a new save file. Begin with 1 skillpoint. Your weapon attacks do 0 damage. You may only choose Frosty Friend, Cloud Strike and Summon Plant as skills.
    31337: Select a new save file. All monsters are elite.
    Untalented: Select a new save file. You receive no talent orbs.

    And then more difficult ones, that appear after after you've completed a number of the above ones.

    Time Attack: Select a new save file. A timer appears on the screen at all times, with a goal next to it. If you fail to complete the goal in time, you receive a Game Over and reset back at the start of the game with nothing. The goals are 'Beat Gigaslime before #', 'Clear the first temple before #', etc.
    The Basics: Select a new save file. The only equipment you can use are Wooden Sword, Big Branch, Wooden Shield.
    One-Hit Wonder: Select a new save file. You have one hit point.


    So when you select a completed or an empty save file, you'd see 'Objectives' as an option to choose from and the option to pick one. Or multiple ones, if you think you can mix-and-match multiple in a single run (and they're actually able to be combined, like Firestarter+Untalented+31337.)

    This seems like it'd greatly extend gameplay time with only small changes made for a lot of these. :)
    TsReaper and Teddy like this.
  5. The G-Meister

    The G-Meister Giga Slime

    I think I disagreed with a few of your ideas when you posted them originally, but I can see myself playing some/a lot of these now. If this were a system that was added, on a token like basis, I'd suggest a couple other things based on what we have in game now:
    1. Either a single objective for completing the game on Hard, or you get two tokens when completing each of these on Hard, or an extra one if you've already completed it on easy. However, seen as I play on Hard most of the time, I can see some of these getting very difficult, especially when hard often requires you to pre-grind for the next area
    2. Another objective for 100%ing the game. While I like to 100% on Hard because I'm a masochist, I think 100% on either just Easy (or can be combined with other objectives) will be fine.
    3. A /beastmode on objective, only unlocked after x tokens.
    Finally, why force multiple players for boss fights in Two to Tango and it's descendants? Just because I have no friends doesn't mean I should be restricted from content :(
  6. Own

    Own Moderator

    Well, tokens are hypothetically infinite. You could get the tokens for 2, 3 and 4 by doing HARDER!!, HARDER!!! and HARDER!!!! :p Or, if token purchases are balanced around the assumption that people do them on Normal and doing them on Hard awards 2, do three objectives on Hard difficulty.

    You could also load up 1-3 extra instances of the game outside of boss rooms and just let them die inside. Though when the game is complete, I imagine there'll be a fair few people looking for co-op on the Steam forums.

    Speaking of, @Teddy, do you think SoG will have a server menu like Wanderlust and Hammerwatch have? Or are we going to be restricted to IP and people on our friends list?
  7. Teddy

    Teddy Developer Staff Member

    I think you might underestimate how much some people enjoy tediousness! There are a bunch of people who have farmed their pets (and themselves) to insane levels, after all (hopefully without an AK47 against their heads :D)

    That being said, a system of challenges that increases the token multiplier or unlock unique rewards or whatever sounds like a good way to rope in players looking for that sort of thing, too, and as you say all these things are fairly easy to implement!

    It should of course be noted that this is all speculations at this point. We haven't had any official design meetings regarding NG+ yet beyond establishing that we want to do it and we want to make it interesting!
  8. Own

    Own Moderator

    Like I said, replaying the game over and over to token grind would be right up my alley. Since I have every Arcade unlock except for the viking hat. :p But the vast majority of people on my friends list have around 20-30 hours in the game, so I guess they don't share my enthusiasm. :(

    Also just 'beat the game over and over' isn't the best streaming content, but people seem to like watching Binding of Isaac challenge runs. :D The new set of rules involved in each one makes them really compelling, despite the minor variations in play.
  9. Own

    Own Moderator

    A few other NG+ options I thought of:

    Randomonium: Every 30 seconds you're given two random skills and a random potion effect.
    Smooth Moves: Bosses and mini-bosses are only killable by dance. Engaging the bossfight puts you into the pet taming minigame, where successful inputs damage the boss for your ATK+MATK and unsuccessful inputs damage you. Perfects = crits. (Come to think of it, this would make for an amusing side-quest minibossfight in the normal game...)
  10. The G-Meister

    The G-Meister Giga Slime

    It might require a bit more work than the rest of them, but what if that dance bar also worked in grinding, where all the moves you would make to kill the enemy (or the group of them) pop up as inputs, so you end up with a Crypt of the Necrodancer type fighting system, but it gives you the moves you need to make.

    Even if this isn't added, someone mod this in. Please <3
  11. res7less

    res7less Jumpkin

    If you do, make sure you have an NPC girl named Angie Plus, who takes care of the rewards :p
    Teddy and The G-Meister like this.

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