Dual Wielding
- Thread starter Yuuki
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GarlicJelly
Friendly Moderator (Formerly known as GoodStuff)
I think the shield fills more that just one purpose and therefore changing the shield into another sword would not be possible. But I do think that Dual Wielding is badass and I personally would like to see this as a passive skill. Then again if 1h uses 2 weapons that add their damage together the total damage would exceed all other damage sources in the game and be extremly broken. 
Yuuki
Boar
thinks like the prefect guard could be implemented through.
Add an shield like block function to the sword, to balance it out it could be the equivalent of an rather weak shield.
Also the damage part could be done like in Bravely default. The second weapons power only half two since its "of hand" or so.
for example.
We use the same weapon twice. they have +10 on it own, but if we dual wield it then it would be more like +10 + (+5)
Add an shield like block function to the sword, to balance it out it could be the equivalent of an rather weak shield.
Also the damage part could be done like in Bravely default. The second weapons power only half two since its "of hand" or so.
for example.
We use the same weapon twice. they have +10 on it own, but if we dual wield it then it would be more like +10 + (+5)
GarlicJelly
Friendly Moderator (Formerly known as GoodStuff)
Do you want the sword for just the aesthetics or to actually have a purpose? Changing the shield into looking like something else seems pretty doable. Sorry if I'm not understanding what you're trying to say. No hard feelings.
Yuuki
Boar
more like acutal usage.
something like this.
a) 1h + shield - balanced out between atack and defense.
b) 1h + 1h - weak defence but stronger damage output then a, blocking is possible via crossing your swords over each other but its weaker then most shields. Blocking could be improved via passive skills but will never reach an actual high tier shield.
something like this.
a) 1h + shield - balanced out between atack and defense.
b) 1h + 1h - weak defence but stronger damage output then a, blocking is possible via crossing your swords over each other but its weaker then most shields. Blocking could be improved via passive skills but will never reach an actual high tier shield.
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GarlicJelly
Friendly Moderator (Formerly known as GoodStuff)
I think this would turn into a really big job for Fred who is doing the animations for this wonderful game. I think he would have to make a new version for every single combination of clothers to fit the new attack animation that would follow a dual wield option. Blocking with your weapon also sounds risky to me as the shield break pretty easily depending on difficulty and monsters you're currently fighting. I love the concept but I don't think it's going to make in it into the game. I am no dev so I can't decide or say no to things, but I do give my honest opinion on things. Sorry for sounding so negative about your great idea. >.<
Poring
Rabby
I think dual wielding is just way too cool, I'm 100% on this one, may be dagger could be added. But in another hand, I think this is just asking too much. The devs have to create a new set of skill for the dual wielding, to balance it may be they have to add skill for the shield ... may be ??? new animation, new weapon ??? Yes cool it is, but this is just too much, they've done alot to release this beta, not even the full one ... well ... add dual wielding is BADASS !!! but now i'm think just let them finish the game, help find some bug, asking for more is kinda too much ... i think ...
GarlicJelly
Friendly Moderator (Formerly known as GoodStuff)
It's good to have dreams and just reading about all the awesome stuff people come up with and post here on the forum just makes me really happy. I wish I was rich and could afford to help the devs add EVERYTHING that people suggested here on the forum.
camelotcrusade
Rabby
Sounds like a good expansion feature to me.
hadig5
Rabby
A game will never be good if the developers can't take the effort to redo a lot to make it better XD Even if it take much effort but will be good, why not take the effort? (Not sayin that they don't work good)
Jyntax
Green Slime
I like the idea but it would need to be balanced. I mean at the current moment 1h+Shield is already pretty f***ing strong. You can actually dodge most the attacks by just walking or pulling your shield out for like 0,3 seconds. If you now add up another sword it would actually need to improve the attackspeed and remove the block ability. Attackspeed is also a very op stat at the moment. I run full attackspeed+crit+Shadow Clone on Story Mode (didn't play Arcade in a while) and it seems like unbeatable because of the mechanics of the game currently.
If you'd add up a dual wield option now it would end up with more attackspeed. If you ask me now why attackspeed and not dmg I'll just come up with "Use your head!". 2 Swords = less balance in stance, so less DMG in a single strike while you have the chance to strike with two hands. So you can attack like 1,5x as fast as with a single weapon. Still you can train your dual wield Skills and increase your balance in stance then to increase the DMG output.
So in the end Dualwielding could be like 1,5~1,8x as strong as 1h+Shield with the counterpart that you can't block or that you can't block properly. Actually because of the current mechanics you should be just able to repel projectiles while dual wielding. If you would be able to block, even if you'd be just able to perfect block, it would be to overpowered.
So if we don't think about all that programming stuff and the creation of the graphics - the balancing is a major issue in this topic.
If you'd add up a dual wield option now it would end up with more attackspeed. If you ask me now why attackspeed and not dmg I'll just come up with "Use your head!". 2 Swords = less balance in stance, so less DMG in a single strike while you have the chance to strike with two hands. So you can attack like 1,5x as fast as with a single weapon. Still you can train your dual wield Skills and increase your balance in stance then to increase the DMG output.
So in the end Dualwielding could be like 1,5~1,8x as strong as 1h+Shield with the counterpart that you can't block or that you can't block properly. Actually because of the current mechanics you should be just able to repel projectiles while dual wielding. If you would be able to block, even if you'd be just able to perfect block, it would be to overpowered.
So if we don't think about all that programming stuff and the creation of the graphics - the balancing is a major issue in this topic.
Kasai
Green Slime
Im not exactly a programmer, much less a game designer, but if this were to be implemented, I'd see one of two possible ways.
1. The thorough way - you would have to create the dual wielding mechanic, so that two weapons of an allowed weapon type could be equiped simultaneously. Personally I'd create a new weapon type - daggers - just for this purpose. Daggers would be much weaker than 1 handed swords, so that adding their attack values wouldn't become a problem (read overpowered). I'd also adjust the blocking mechanic for dual wielding: normal blocking wouldn't work at all, only perfect blocking would be allowed.
2. The slightly but not much easier way - just create a new "dual daggers" weapon type. Gameplay wise they are a single item with less attack power but higher attack speed than 1 handed swords. Since they are a single item, a shield could be used just like with any of the current weapons.
No matter which way you like more, there is no way around creating new sprites for dual wielding. I'd like to add though that, while dual wielding certainly is a cool idea, I don't care that much about it right now. I just want the game to be finished. Once that is done, I may start dreaming about cool new fighting styles. ^^
1. The thorough way - you would have to create the dual wielding mechanic, so that two weapons of an allowed weapon type could be equiped simultaneously. Personally I'd create a new weapon type - daggers - just for this purpose. Daggers would be much weaker than 1 handed swords, so that adding their attack values wouldn't become a problem (read overpowered). I'd also adjust the blocking mechanic for dual wielding: normal blocking wouldn't work at all, only perfect blocking would be allowed.
2. The slightly but not much easier way - just create a new "dual daggers" weapon type. Gameplay wise they are a single item with less attack power but higher attack speed than 1 handed swords. Since they are a single item, a shield could be used just like with any of the current weapons.
No matter which way you like more, there is no way around creating new sprites for dual wielding. I'd like to add though that, while dual wielding certainly is a cool idea, I don't care that much about it right now. I just want the game to be finished. Once that is done, I may start dreaming about cool new fighting styles. ^^
t4e.axel
Green Slime
Hmmm to keep balance they could make specific off-hand swords that does not give attack but instead other bonuses like attack speed, critical, health points, energy points or special abilities and decrease other stats. A sightly faster attack animation pattern when 2 blades are equipped would also have to be added to make difference between 1 and dual wielding.
Quote
Rabby
I don't get why everyone here is saying "We have to lose out on shield" if we dual wield.
Two handed swords take two hands too ya dingus.
But no seriously, why would you limit a dual wield to no shield if I can hold a greatsword and do it? You put the sword away after you swing, it's not always out.
If it was implemented it would be its own fighting style I would assume, therefore just make it its own weapon type. One handed, Greatsword and Dual Wield.
Two handed swords take two hands too ya dingus.
But no seriously, why would you limit a dual wield to no shield if I can hold a greatsword and do it? You put the sword away after you swing, it's not always out.
If it was implemented it would be its own fighting style I would assume, therefore just make it its own weapon type. One handed, Greatsword and Dual Wield.
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MrChocodemon
Handsome Moderator
I think dingi is the correct plural here xD
But seriously i don't think that dual wielding would fit in the game, how it is working right now.
And even if, i would vote for looosing the shield and be a little faster in movement speed or having a small dodge.
That would depend on using X/Z both on attacking or using just Z for attacking and X for dodging or something like that.
Dual wielding seems rather like an additional entry for the "Ideas for Mods and future game expansions" list, than a thing that should be done in the next patch.
Jyntax
Green Slime
@Quote
It's pretty easy why. If you can use Dual Wielding and still use your shield, why would you use a 1h Sword?
In my eyes dual wield stands for the following things:
Attackspeed & DPS
So if you can still use your Shield it would make that even more OP. Besides you're right 2h Swords can use Shields too but they are still weaker then 1h Swords in my eyes. Yes you deal more DMG with a single blow but you can't dodge as fast as if you'd use a 1h Sword. Sure you can cancel your animation with the Shield and use this (kinda bug) to improve your attackspeed and mobility with the 2h Sword but still the 1h Sword is faster and doesn't need a "bug" to dodge enemies. Actually I'd also take away the Shield from the 2h Sword user and would add a Sword-Block for them. They got a bigger Sword, they got less mobility so why not hold the Sword in front of you as a Shield after you attacked with it?
This game will go a very very long way before it's finished and I bet there will be some changes in the Battlesystem. So I wouldn't come up with something like "2h Sword + Shield works too" and rely on that. It might be changed in the future and it would actually give the 2h Sword something different. If it then get's a bit more power to catch up with the 1h Sword DPS or anything that makes the 2h Sword more useable, it would be very nice in my eyes.
@Topic
I really need to sign MrChocos Post. Dual Wielding just doesn't fit in the current game and if it gets into the game it needs a downside. Losing some DMG for more Attackspeed isn't a real downside because you can stagger the enemies.
Besides more Attackspeed with high Crit Rate is still way more DMG because you Crit more often. So even if you lose like 30% ATK by using Dualwielding you'd much more often Crit in the end and would have a +50% DMG on it. So you'd go for like ~20 Crit + a lot Attackspeed and just Crit the s**t out of the enemies.
It's pretty easy why. If you can use Dual Wielding and still use your shield, why would you use a 1h Sword?
In my eyes dual wield stands for the following things:
Attackspeed & DPS
So if you can still use your Shield it would make that even more OP. Besides you're right 2h Swords can use Shields too but they are still weaker then 1h Swords in my eyes. Yes you deal more DMG with a single blow but you can't dodge as fast as if you'd use a 1h Sword. Sure you can cancel your animation with the Shield and use this (kinda bug) to improve your attackspeed and mobility with the 2h Sword but still the 1h Sword is faster and doesn't need a "bug" to dodge enemies. Actually I'd also take away the Shield from the 2h Sword user and would add a Sword-Block for them. They got a bigger Sword, they got less mobility so why not hold the Sword in front of you as a Shield after you attacked with it?
This game will go a very very long way before it's finished and I bet there will be some changes in the Battlesystem. So I wouldn't come up with something like "2h Sword + Shield works too" and rely on that. It might be changed in the future and it would actually give the 2h Sword something different. If it then get's a bit more power to catch up with the 1h Sword DPS or anything that makes the 2h Sword more useable, it would be very nice in my eyes.
@Topic
I really need to sign MrChocos Post. Dual Wielding just doesn't fit in the current game and if it gets into the game it needs a downside. Losing some DMG for more Attackspeed isn't a real downside because you can stagger the enemies.
Besides more Attackspeed with high Crit Rate is still way more DMG because you Crit more often. So even if you lose like 30% ATK by using Dualwielding you'd much more often Crit in the end and would have a +50% DMG on it. So you'd go for like ~20 Crit + a lot Attackspeed and just Crit the s**t out of the enemies.
NightCurse
Green Slime
Dual wielding will be a great addition to that game! Possibility to make a thief class or shadow warrior class are given due to some skills, so why no dual wielding then? This will fit to the named classes very well in my opinion. So please dev team! This would be great to add something like dual dagger's, sword and dagger, switchblades or 2x 1h swords.