First thoughts and a request for gold and item sharing in MP

[camelotcrusade]

Bought SoG last night and my friend and had a great time playing it for hours. Great job, guys! This game is something special.

After playing solo for a while I tried MP with a friend. We didn't last long in Arcade (and honestly, I don't think an endurance game will be our style) so we tried story mode next. It was fun (and we're going to play it more) but two things stood out to us as areas for improvement:

1. We'd like a way to share equal gold.
The reason is because the front-line player collects a lot more gold than the back-line player. I was a swordsman and he was a wizard and I had hundreds more gold than he did (gold drops where you kill stuff). I'd like a way to either automatically split the gold (i.e., we each get half) or failing have that a way to trade gold later.

2. We'd like to trade items, even if it's simply by dropping them on the ground
Similar to the "guy in front gets the gold" problem the guy in front gets all the monster drops, too. It wouldn't be a problem if we could just give each other what is needed for crafting or selling later.

Those two were the only big issues. Two other things I noticed were that a) I couldn't find a way to craft 20 sticks into a big stick even though the recipe says I can and b) after we finished killing the king slime in the arena I could not leave the award ceremony area but the other player (the host) could. I had to save and exit and rejoin the game to be able to access the rest of the town.

 

[GarlicJelly]

The crafting with the sticks is something that they removed but you can still see the recipe since they don't know what to do with it. It was an old idea that got change and now it's haunting the game as a ghost.

 

[Octave]

I don't think you should be able to share things. I think you should have to work for everything you have.

I just don't like the idea of someone joining a game, giving a new player a bunch of high-end gear, and leaving them to it. Not being able to share items definitely controls at which point in the game you'll be able to obtain what, keeping game flow and the difficultly curve very stable and easy to manage, and providing a better experience for the player. It's definitely better than just mashing through the whole game with end-game weaponry and feeling empty inside.

And I (as a primarily magic user) have never had an issue obtaining gold or items when playing with my two friends (who both use melee). So I do not understand your problem.

 

[GarlicJelly]

Um, I get the theory behind shared gold and I support that idea but for the trading I feel just like Octave. Even if I'm going to play with people I know and I can ensure that this won't happen to me I still don't want the game to allow that sort of thing to happen as I think that would ruin the experience. Diablo 3 has a nice trading system right now which I think is a really good system. You can only trade items with others who where in your session when the item dropped. That way the backline could still get loot needed for quests etc. As for items you can buy I think that those should not be tradeable as that would cause the same problem as stated above.

 

[Fred]

Like GoodStuff and Octave, I've never had any problem with gold sharing or heard any other complains about it. I guess it all has to do with how you go about playing the game. If it turns into a reoccurring problems for a lot of players, adding the same system used in Arcade Mode for at least the gold would be an option.

 

[camelotcrusade]

Wow, I am so not playing this game like you guys are. I don't play it competitively or as a personal challenge. I play it as a casual family experience and for that these features would make it friendlier.

The only way I play this game in co-op mode is with a spouse or a child. We want to have fun, work together, and not compete (it's co-op mode, after all). Since we aren't competing, it seems strange to that rewards are biased towards front-line characters. Front-liners at our house have to remember not to pick up all the coins and to hang back when loot drops to see who wants it. Easier said than done for the smaller ones. As for trading, twinking out a new character was the furthest thing from my mind. I was thinking about one kid vacuuming up the loot and the other kid crying he doesn't get any and so asking them to share.

Surely both of these goals and play-styles could be considered in the build.

 

[hadig5]

The game forces nobody to be a specific class.. if you chose to be a long range mage guy that probably gets less hit by enemies compared to a close range who will probs take most damage, there is going to be the dissadvatage of not getting everything first. Making it waay to coop is going to make it kinda boring, i think that there must be atleast a slight competing while working together to keep it fun. Im for the trade system, but not the gold share, its way to easy.

 

[camelotcrusade]

Since it seems to be getting lost in the debate let me clarify: I'm suggesting an option to allow gold sharing and/or item trading, right? Turn it on and it happens, turn it off and it doesn't. There is more than one way to play and enjoy this game... at least there can be, with options.

 

[hadig5]

Oh ok, im with u there unless creating this will take up much time

 

[Antar]

I see where you're coming from and I support this idea. I haven't had this problem yet but that's because I only played a mix of melee and sometimes ranged. Trading items also would be a good feature, even though some could abuse it, but that's not going to ruin the game for anyone but themselves. There were several situations where I picked up a two handed weapon that I didn't need but I couldn't give it to my brother. I think options should always be welcomed but I understand you guys might have some more prioritized features for the next updates.

 

[Renegade]

I like both the suggestions in the original post, and I hope they can be implemented as options. Personally, I don't want to feel like I have to compete against people I'm supposed to be co-operating with.

I feel like a system where the melee players get first shot at loot just means you end up with everyone playing an aggressive melee style where they're always trying to push ahead so they can grab as much as they can for themselves, rather than working together. This happens in a lot of existing games

Like GoodStuff and Octave, I've never had any problem with gold sharing or heard any other complains about it.

I'd bet the number of complaints will go up as more people start playing, and as loot has more value. The type of player who'll discover, buy, and give feedback on an Early Access title before it even reaches Steam isn't going to be a good representation of the typical player, IMO.

 

[Renegade]

Bumping this to add that yesterday, when I went back to the room to re-fight bosses, there were three of us in the party and only one of us got any loot at all from the fight - because he just happened to be standing next to the monster when we killed it. That was great for him, not so much for everyone else playing

 

[MrChocodemon]

I'm against item sharing as no game ever got something good out of it.
Borderlands 1+2 and Diablo 3 suffered heavily and now that D3 removed that it is finally much better.
I think it would just make grinding less important and the game would lose some of it's charme.
Of course sharing is optional, but i don't think that people are able to regulate their own experience. They have proven so multiple times and i don't think this time would be different.

Sharing items as in trading.

I could however support two ways that would both be better than story coop is right now.
1) Everyone has his/her own loot
2) Everyone gets the same loot

 

[camelotcrusade]

I'm against item sharing as no game ever got something good out of it.

That's your opinion. Trading items hasn't ruined Terraria or TitanQuest for me and I play both as co-op games where working together and helping each other gear up is part of the fun. I keep my single player and co-op character separate, though. Perhaps if co-op characters could only be used in co-op mode (a flag upon creation) it would prevent the temptation to trade with others to twink out your single player character.

Regarding your solutions, I like option 2 the best. Option 1 just rubs in that loot can't be traded when everybody gets something the guy next to them would die for.

 

[Renegade]

I wouldn't say item trading ruined Borderlands. A small number of players get all the best weapons from other people and breeze through the game, but they enjoyed the time they spent playing, and it doesn't affect anyone else's time in the game, so I don't think it's fair to say nobody should be able to do that. And for D3, I think the auction house was what ruined the game more than anything else, because whatever weapon you found, there was always one 10x better just a click away.

I don't like the idea of everyone getting the same stuff because it makes the game a little less co-operative - you'd be taking away the "So what did you get?" aspect of it. I know there's shared loot from chests already, but some randomness on the drops would make it more interesting to farm bosses etc.

So I like the idea of people getting their own loot, and being able to trade. If that means there are players who decide they want top tier gear at the start of the game, that's okay... I wouldn't play like that but it doesn't matter to me how someone else enjoys the game.

 

[MrChocodemon]

^^ So we all have different opinions but all agree that it is frustrating when someone picks up an item that you need and they don't and you can't trade.

 

[Endasil]

I think the ability to trade items with your friends is a basic requirement for a good cooperative rpg. For me these games has never been about competing but simply have fun with a friend. Part of the fun is to help each other out by giving the other player stuff they need more than i do. Since tge save games are located on the users harddrive, they can easily be changed with a hex editor to give cheaters what they want anyway.

 

[SSJSephiroth]

Just thought I'd throw in my thoughts on this.

I like the idea of trading, but it needs to be an optional trade. If the person receiving the trade doesn't want the items, they should be able to decline the trade (like most mmorpg systems).

As for loot drops, I would love to see a "keep what you kill" system in place (they could call it necromonger style...lol). The gold is divided based on the damage done to the enemy. If loot is going to drop, the best item goes to the one who did the highest damage. It would encourage some friendly competition for damage if you want to play that way.

 

[Endasil]

Regarding loot sharing, something i have seen in many games that i like is that when a monster is killed, one piece of loot is spawned for each player, each player has their own random instance of loot that only they can see and pick up. This way, regardless if you are running ahead or behind, everyone get the same chance to loot. I don't understand why you want gold to be distributed differently depending on damage. Why would you want your friends to get less money just because you happen to be stronger? Why not work together to improve everyone in the team?

 

[SSJSephiroth]

Well, with trading being possible, you could work together to improve anyways. I just also like the idea of friendly competition. Like in Super Mario World 3D on the Wii U, you are all working together, but the person who did the most (shown at the end of each stage) get a crown to wear on the next stage. You are all working together, but the competition is fun.

No matter what is ultimately decided, I think there should be a way to toggle the loot system to your personal preference anyways. Maybe even separate toggles for gold, items, etc. That way each could player could customize their own experience.