Housing suggestions megathread.

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Feedback' started by Own, Jun 1, 2017.

  1. The G-Meister

    The G-Meister Giga Slime

    I'm liking the housing overall, and some of the things suggested in this thread (particularly Res7's stuff) I'd love to have in a house. Having said that, I don't have much motivation to get to grips with the system if I can't have the right room shapes in which to put the objects. And with that, here's my dump of complaints about the room building and lumber systems.

    Having played a lot of Minecraft in my time, I've become fond of building not-so-regular shaped houses. For me, the majority of rooms are never square, and often don't even come to regular shapes at all. They join up in all manner of different ways - some vertically, some horizontally, some with a gentle incline, some with staircases. A floor, where applicable, may not be flat.

    Basically, to me, a house isn't just (or does't have to be) a series of interlocking rooms. It is it's own free-form structure that wraps around itself in convoluted ways, where rooms connect in both convenient and aesthetically pleasing ways. With this in mind, here's what I don't like.

    Almost the first thing I noticed is that you can't place a room inside a gap left by the addition of a new wall:
    upload_2017-6-29_19-17-48.png

    It's trying to add this room onto the edge of the wall, which is understandable, but why shouldn't I be able to put it inside that little gap I've made? This is an example of an interlocking room that would give the house that almost maze-like structure I'd want it to have.

    I'm pretty disappointed in the lack of horizontal walls. It's absence seems conspicuous to me, would like some reasoning. Also apparently it's been brought up already somewhere, but I can't seem to find that. Maybe it was on the Discord.

    This is a minor gripe, but why don't rooms start at their smallest size? You can shrink a new room horizontally by two sections, and get the lumber back for it. It seems like a better idea for rooms to start at their smallest size so, if you're short on lumber, you don't have to get a few extra for a new room of the smallest size.

    Why don't we get lumber back from bringing a wall in? The system appears to be 1 lumber per 1 square, and by bringing a wall in, we're restricting the number of squares we can put stuff in. And if we should get lumber back for reshaping, we run into the same issue as above - extra lumber shouldn't have to be put into a room if you're only going to shrink it down again and get that lumber back.

    If we compile all these complaints together, most of them can be solved by a change to the way rooms are edited. This is where I propose:

    The room-brush tool

    What does it do? Well, the whole resize/reshape system could be replaced with a brush-like system that essentially allows you to "paint" your room shapes. While it would still be faster to use a mouse, using this system means you don't have to navigate through as many menus to get the desired result.

    Regardless, the brush can be changed into different shapes, eg. cuboid, circular, round-edge cuboid, etc. and resized into however big you want it to be, with each "place" calculating the amount of room spaces needed to be cleared and subtracting that much lumber (or calculating that dynamically and going green/red when placing is feasible), possibly giving you a popup if you don't have enough and asking if you want to buy more. Of course, there'd have to be an opposite function as well, allowing you to place walls and retrieve lumber.

    So, to resize, set the brush to a cuboid the width/height of the room, hold "place" and the direction you want to build in. To reshape, set the tool to place walls with a cuboid of applicable size and follow the same instructions. New rooms can be added to any flat-enough surface, possibly also allowing re-connection to other rooms.

    Seems like this would make life a lot easier. Would like to know what people think.

    Sorry, this might've sounded a bit cynical, but I can't really find motivation to build a house over building one in Minecraft if I can't get nice room shapes to put my objects in.

    I had a few extras I wanted to add but it looks like I've forgotten them. Will update when I remember.

    ~G
     
  2. Frigid

    Frigid Green Slime

    I saw a similar suggestion a few posts back, but being able to make our houses more "dungeon-like" would be a cool effect.
    Now, I'm not at 100%, but so far I've been unable to find whether or not stairs are an option. Personally I like the very grandiose idea of having multiple floors, or maybe even stairs as a separate flavor for doors, so the aesthetic value is still preserved while using them more to transition between rooms than anything.
     
  3. The G-Meister

    The G-Meister Giga Slime

    Aha, thanks for jogging my memory. Maybe if stairs wouldn't work for multiple floors, at least having a balcony-like system that allows you to raise the floor up/down might be nice. I'm quite a fan of slightly raised or indented floors in rooms ever since I played Funkeys as a kid (daaaaamn that takes me back).
     
  4. Teddy

    Teddy Developer Staff Member

    Wow... I... this sentence dumbfounds me. Not if it came from a random person, but from someone who is (or aspires to become) a developer himself it's sooo rude. In fact, your entire post reads like one of those "but you have the multiplayer, why didn't you just make an MMO?!"-posts, but with a tinge of dry incredulity.

    Don't worry. It doesn't sound cynical, just rude, condescending and lacking in insight regarding the reality of development.

    What you see is at the very limit of what could be done in reasonable time (by us) for a side feature like this. It was supposed to be much simpler than it is, but we saw some ways to expand upon the system without too much time penalty, and frankly I feel it now offers much more freedom than similar systems in other similar games (that is, games not focused around building stuff). Of course we could spend 6 more months and rework the entire thing and maybe get something a bit better, or spend 1 year+ and definitely end up with something pretty cool that could be the base of a game itself, but I think that would accrue even more angry posts, and they'd have a much better reason for it.

    Sorry for being rude myself, but your arrogant tone just really got to me. Maybe because I haven't been subjected to it for some time.

    (As far as your paint brush suggestion goes, the fact that KoBeWi's post-launch dungeon editor suggestion would be more straightforward to implement into the system might give you an idea how feasible it is)
     
  5. res7less

    res7less Jumpkin

    Holy, what? :D I'm sorry for chiming in, but I never thought it was possible to get to Teddy in any way. In fact, I consider him an impenetrable fortress of positive energy (since the post about the chocolate cake devouring pig) and observing such a backlash to an objective opinion was quite unexpected. Achievement unlocked? And here I thought Own had the most arrogant tone on the forums :p Well, that's the thing with communicating over text - sometimes it's very difficult to estimate a person's manner of expression without verbal and visual contact.

    That aside, compared to the story updates I was actually surprised by how quickly the housing system got from "housing is the next thing on our agenda" to "we merged stable and frontline for the housing system". I wondered if it's because it's more straightforward and needs less communication and revision than working on story elements, that need to observed in the context, while the context is alive and changing all the time. I'm pretty happy with the housing system - sure, there are limits, but housing being a side-feature and not the main focus, I think it's currently in a very solid state that can be expanded if the necessity arises. Especially considering how quickly it came to be.
     
  6. The G-Meister

    The G-Meister Giga Slime

    Apology accepted, but it sounds like I owe you one too. Maybe it isn't just 2 months worth of rust when it comes to internet debating either, but more of a symptom of just me in general.

    You know what. Maybe me being around here as often as I am isn't actually that helpful to the game. I'm another (often lengthy) opinion to read and sometimes not a particularly constructive one. Many a time have I gone back on a point I previously made and corrected it, writing yet more lengthy paragraphs to cover the new opinion. Maybe it's time for a change - the next step up, if you will.

    I hope this isn't taken as a passive-aggressive "oh well you're not gonna implement this so I'll do it myself". I do love this game. There's a reason I hang around here so often, post as much as I do and have played as many hours as I have. I want the best from the game, and I'd love other people to get as much enjoyment out of it as I have. Whether my posts contribute to that or not is a different matter, but still, consider the intention rather than the effect.

    If I can teach myself to code, I can teach myself to mod. I've got a whole summer ahead of me with nothing else to do. It's at least worth a shot.

    And again, I'm sorry. I wish you the best of luck during the rest of development.
     
  7. Own

    Own Moderator

    You're all big jerks and I want a jaccuzi for my home for bikini season or I'm getting a refund. :naniva:
     
    res7less, Teddy and Frigid like this.
  8. Teddy

    Teddy Developer Staff Member

    While I selfishly think having mod tools for Grindea would be really cool, I also think it would be much better for you to focus your energy on Mainframe.

    A couple of people have been very confident that they would create modding tools for the game but both were never heard of again! Perhaps someone is murdering them, perhaps it's because they were better at boasting than doing, but it could also mean Grindea for some reason is not as suitable for modding as other games (or perhaps a combination). I don't know anything about how people hack in mod support, so I have no way of knowing for sure!

    What I'm getting at is that you seem to have a clear idea of where you want to take your own project, and that's a good place to be when you have some creative energy to spend. Slamming into a brick wall trying to mod Grindea, on the other hand, might suck you dry!

    At least that's how it has worked for me in the past - when I'm the most hyped I've learned to focus on things that are both fresh and challenging, but most importantly, things that I'm 100 % confident I can finish so it doesn't mess with the hype state. I solve bugs when my hype levels are moderate, and if I'm really down in the dumps I do administrative stuff!

    Just my two cents as a grumpy old programmer.

    Now, this here sentence is impossible for me to say without being condescending, because it is a condescending statement, and while I don't quite mean it as condescending, here's something condescending:

    I think that if you stick to your current path and get a serious project out there - maybe that's Mainframe or maybe it's something else - you'll reach a point where you have interactions with people about your game, and some of those interactions might make you go "ah, okay, this is how it looks from this side".

    Feedback, all things considered, is decidedly a positive thing. That said, its double sided nature, being monumentally important but also inescapably destructive*, is quite interesting. We could probably discuss this for weeks considering how long we both take to write even a single paragraph! So, uh... let's leave it to people who don't have games to make :D

    * this side can be made worse or greatly alleviated depending on the poster's finesse or lack thereof, but it can probably never be completely counteracted

    Haha, it's apparently possible! I blame the week of rain and storm preventing me from getting my after work ice cream from down by the docks! Another week of this and I'll turn into Bag :bag:

    I had a little less snarky "snap" once (back when the beta came out on Desura, around when the dinosaurs died) on a guy who just trashed the game in a... let's say special tone. Not cursing or so, but rather stuff like "the way this works is so stupid, just WHY would you do it like this??"

    That time I just calmly explained why I felt that his post was needlessly destructive, which actually resulted in a rather heartfelt apology from him! Given the success of that reply, I'm genuinely not sure why I didn't try that again this time...

    OMGGG the nerve of this guy why isn't he banned yet?!!
     
    res7less likes this.
  9. KoBeWi

    KoBeWi Jumpkin

    So, I silently tried to mod Grinea once, and just as silently I gave up. Upon decompiling, I got over 300 errors, most of which were missing type casts from float to int (I hate C# btw). When I finally managed to fix it all and successfully recompiled the game, the feature I specifically wanted to mod didn't work at all.

    If modding for Grindea were to happen, either the game needs to have source code released somehow, or a modding API (exposed parts of code, with inner workings still kept secret, like Starbound did). Otherwise, re-building the game from extracting exe just takes too much work to make it worth, at least when there's an update every few weeks, which means you need to do that again. Maaaybe it's possible to automate the process, but it requires someone who has excessive amount of free time and hates their life.
     
  10. The G-Meister

    The G-Meister Giga Slime

    @Teddy I guess we caught each other in opposite moods. Sounds like you've had a really shit week :(

    As much as I'd like to be stubborn and throw myself at a brick wall like I've done many times before, I guess I'll back down early here. Seen as I was having difficulty just installing XNA yesterday, it sounds like @KoBeWi been much further than I have and still having issues, so I don't really wanna push it much further. From the sounds of things it might be worth reconsidering around full release, but that's a long way off yet. I doubt the game's gonna be finished in the 2 months I have off.

    I suppose I've got programming to do.
     
    res7less likes this.
  11. Own

    Own Moderator

    Birds

    Can we maybe get a bird-cluster item for our home, after we do Pidgy's quest? To go with them appearing in town? Preferably those that don't fly away.

    Spotlights

    To have better lighting options for rooms, 'Spotlights' would be a great addition. Items that are only visible when in the design menu, but vanish in the live mode. You could have a 'Circle Spotlight', 'Triangle Spotlight', 'Square Spotlight', etc. These would just be shapes set to 100% lighting to provide shapes of light wherever in your darkened home you want them, without needing candles or other visible light sources attached. So, if you wanted a beam of light around your Tai Ming statue, you could. :)

    upload_2018-5-14_9-46-52.png A fountain would be handy for my indoor park.

    upload_2018-5-14_9-51-6.png

    As would a stretchable 'rug' of this water bit, for making little watery pathways. Ideally ones that would freeze if the room is switched to Winter. :) ... In fact, a waterfall item would be pretty nifty too!

    Also, could the UI be auto-hidden in the home? It's a bit unsightly in the upper left corner in there.
     
  12. LittleMsCopycat

    LittleMsCopycat Green Slime

    So, Here is my idea, having your house in a backyard area, similiarly like a house in the pumpkin woods background, sky fortress, and many more.
     
    Zydrune likes this.
  13. funnypun

    funnypun Green Slime

    I'd really like some functional uses for the house heres some off the top of my head that i'd love for you to implement

    Maybe be able to sleep in beds to give some kind of buff that lasts a while

    Being able to cook in our home and have unique food items (consumables) to use for buffs as well would be nice (coffee for movement speed boost please?)

    A teleport to house option would be nice as well

    Maybe a mailbox to get randomized requests (quests) from npcs and world lore from letters based on quests done etc to help make the world feel more alive
     
  14. Own

    Own Moderator

    upload_2018-12-16_6-25-45.png

    Desert/beach as a floor option.

    upload_2018-12-16_6-26-42.png

    Notice board.

    upload_2018-12-16_6-28-24.png
    Items to go with our potential beach room.

    upload_2018-12-16_6-29-5.png

    This fancy bed for two.

    upload_2018-12-16_6-32-12.png

    Why no non-fleeing various colored salamander to animate in our home? :(

    upload_2018-12-16_6-33-14.png

    We got Mt. Bloom shrooms but no desert cacti/cacshrooms?!

    In fact, these various assets would be nice as housing items, including the temple background wall.

    upload_2018-12-16_6-49-17.png
     
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  15. res7less

    res7less Jumpkin

    I want the Math Cave floor and walls, please, when I reach room 50. And a statue of my character with Sumsum's hat when I reach room 100. (only half-serious :p)
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
  16. res7less

    res7less Jumpkin

    Jokes aside, it would be pretty cool to use various numbers and operators as wall decorations. You could create your own formulae on the walls, or number the rooms, or even make a full room with math walls, floors and your own numbers. Maybe even place a math puzzle replica that works the same as the original ones, and ups the counter when solved.
     
  17. Own

    Own Moderator

    I feel like housing could be feel better on a player to player level if there were a bunch of simple patterned wallpapers to use. Just an image repeating in a checkboard-esque layout. Like a pawprint, or a cat, stars, slimes or whatever. Like some of these.

    https://stardewvalleywiki.com/Wallpaper
     
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