Most new players WILL quit the game after beating the story. Without question.

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Feedback' started by Spaz, Dec 30, 2015.

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Does this make sense?

  1. No.

    46.7%
  2. Yes, but I prefer what is currently in the game

    26.7%
  3. Yes, and I'd prefer this over the current content

    26.7%
  1. Own

    Own Moderator

    I know, I posted up the OP flamethrower build everyone is running. :p I meant for builds that aren't flamethrower. Avoiding taking a few ticks of blizzard damage when you're in a tiny box while he's doing his four-dash combo, and thereby S-Ranking the floor, is really hard. They're the most difficult to double S-Rank, like I said.
     
  2. The G-Meister

    The G-Meister Giga Slime

    I tend to somewhat brute force arcade. It relies on using normal 1H attacks and dodging strike. Seen as there's no need for any other skills in the build, Brawler and Protect really give your DEF a kick, as long as you've got some in the first place. I will always take damage on floor 5 upwards, yet I can get all the way to floor 10 before I die. I managed to beat Marino solo on my second attempt (just) and I haven't had a chance to battle Smashie Bashie again. However, the Toy Machine got completely annihilated on my first attempt. I spose it's a lack of anything going after the player.

    As I posted in the long term balance, these aren't the only set of bosses which are unbalanced. 1 blue crystal protecting the Sentry triples my damage taken in that fight. Damage taken is Phaseman is purely down to a very small chance my shield breaks, and I'm slowly warming to GUN-D4M's final barrage.
     
  3. JacWhisper

    JacWhisper Green Slime

    I'm getting to the end of floor 9, and I keep facing S & B. I get WRECKED with a Frosty Friend/Lightning Cloud/Flamethrower build. Arguably, I could shift Lightning Cloud to something else since I spend 95% of S & B running away from something, but still. It's ridiculous. I still have yet to clear The Red King quest because there's only ONE way to do it, and I find that reprehensibly lame. There should NEVER be *ONLY* one way to do something. Pigeonholing builds a la Blade And Soul achievement strategies is just sad.

    I'm nowhere NEAR G-Meister's skill level, but like I said. I manage to get to the end of floor nine with between 3 and 5 health potions, various dmg/skill boost potions, and full health. I STILL have yet to kill EITHER boss before getting killed. Something is awry. Either the Lightning Cloud needs to distance itself more to hit stuff while you're trying to keep your distance, or the FF needs to not get absolutely demolished by the S & B Snow pellet storm, or something. I don't know. This is just my personal build, and my personal experiences.

    And this build has absolutely NO chance against The Red King. =(.
     
  4. tkld178

    tkld178 Rabby

    S & B is a hard boss because they have so much damage potential. I'm gonna be honest right now I can't remember which is which right now so I'll just give you some tips to make the fight a bit better.

    The block is easier to kill but that is a trap, you want to kill the frostling first. The block has a more predictable second phase move set. So you are going to target the frostling. During this you will always have to be focused on what the block is doing so it does not jump on you, never get greedy with attacking frostling and get hit by the block. As long as you are moving the frostling will never be able to melee you, you move faster than his hit can land. So at the beginning of the fight you can get a few flamethrowers off before he will go to the center.

    One thing I will point out is that if you are using manaburn it is having no effect, it only takes effect if what you used was used below 50% current max man, and going below 50% after use will not trigger the effect. If you have both summons you won't have enough mana for this to work.

    So before every flamethrower you do you want to melee the frostling ONCE before it to stun it. if you try to spam flamethrower on it's attackable phase it will get a hit in and stop your spell. If you also use more than one melee it can hit you. You should be able to get 2 flamethrowers off during it's attackable phase every time after the first. As long as you are paying attention to the block and not getting hit the frostling should die rather quickly.

    I won't spoil the second phase, but don't attack till you learn what it does and be prepared to dodge.

    This is probably the most punishing fight because the block can kill you in 2-3 hits with a rather fast moving attack. If you stay focused though it can be very consistent.

    (If all else fails the last time i checked the frostling can be stunned during it's dash to the center by knocking it up with earth spike and it breaks it's code.)

    The problem with the cloud is that it can only attack so often and when it can't attack it will always try to go back to you because it has nothing to target because it can't attack, so it will have to travel a bit of the way back to the enemy almost every attack and it has to be very close to attack. This is just what I've noticed though, don't know if this is true.
     
  5. res7less

    res7less Jumpkin

    I'm not very deep into Arcade Mode (I only reached Winterland once), so I can't really argue about builds and all, but this statement is simply wrong. Yes, it's easier to take builds other people have proven to be useful, but I'm sure testing out one's own stuff can also give similar results. I'm always fond of playing two-handed and never fond of interrupting attacks with shield blocks, and it was still possible for me to beat the Red King, so no, there isn't only one way. Defeating him two-handed also seemed impossible to me at first but after some practice, I was getting closer and closer until I beat him - and I'm clearly only one of very many.
     
  6. JacWhisper

    JacWhisper Green Slime

    I applaud you. Now show me a magic build that can kill him. Because I've searched high and low and, as I didn't specify quite well enough. Melee builds are few and far between, but capable of killing him. Whereas there is not currently a magic build that I have been able to find that can even get him to the first spin phase before the entire room is covered in red, even with jump placements nearing perfection, perfect guarding the slams, and not getting hit unless absolutely required.
     
  7. res7less

    res7less Jumpkin

    Um, I never said "Any build works.", just pointed out that there isn't "only one way", as the statement was false. So I'm not obligated to find anything. And even if I would want to try, the quest is completed in my Arcade Mode and I don't feel particularly inclined towards messing around with my save files just to prove a point I have never made.
     
  8. JacWhisper

    JacWhisper Green Slime

    As I said, I didn't specify well enough. I was referring to the lack of balance between the quest capability for magic versus melee. Melee clearly wins out. And you don't have to do anything to figure anything out. I've searched everywhere I could even think of, to figure out a magic build. No success, yet. Not even one that gets to the spins yet. =(.
     
  9. JacWhisper

    JacWhisper Green Slime

    Welp. I finished Arcade Mode. Only saw Lord Winter two times. Killed him the second time. I'm now, as of last time I checked, 69th on the global leaderboards. I guess that's alright, I suppose.

    Devs, is there any way you could possibly institute a practice mode for the quests in Arcade? I genuinely cannot get past the red king, and practicing it is beyond time consuming and ridiculous. I know it's currently supposed to be THE endgame hardmode, but there's no way to actively practice on bosses to test builds and see what works, what doesn't, without getting there, and dying. Even if you're just trying to test builds.

    Thoughts?
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2016
  10. Teddy

    Teddy Developer Staff Member

    We've got plans for a bunch of tweaks and additions to the Arcade Mode, including an unlockable NPC in Arcadia that lets you practice against all bosses that you've reached! We'll start working on those when Tai Ming is finally done.
     
  11. JacWhisper

    JacWhisper Green Slime

    I eagerly wait this NPC. Much obliged.
     
  12. I definitely agree with what Fred had to say about this. I think because of Binding of Isaac being more luck based than skill based and Secret's of Grindea's Arcade Mode is more skill based than luck. Even I have trouble with it (mainly because in SoG I've taken a tank approach, I need to change this but probably when the game's fully out or at least closer to completion), but having a difficulty setting that gives you a lower score and a lower reward scale would definitely be more apparent, maybe easy mode will not give you any essence but hard mode will give you 1.5x the amount (and possibly a higher drop rate, but only slightly).
     
  13. tkld178

    tkld178 Rabby

    I will say luck isn't as important but it can end runs for sure. Getting the wrong enemies at the wrong time or not getting an item/card can hurt your run. It's easy to lose a run because luck is not on your side.
     
  14. JacWhisper

    JacWhisper Green Slime

    Hah. This made me laugh sadly. I build a very specific way in my runs in Arcade, and something I didn't know on my very last run was the previous run I made to Winter and died, I had gotten a 5EP card from one of the colored knights, I believe. Well, it gave me EXACTLY enough EP to cast all my pets AND one nuke. My last run that put me on the boards for killing Winter... I didn't get the card. Couldn't figure out where I screwed up. Had an OOOOHHHH WOWWWW moment three minutes before engaging Winter.

    Luck, indeed.
     

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