Quickslots - Sword & Shield and then some...

[Props]

Using the controller, I'm glad that you use the L & R triggers as modifiers, but I'm somewhat disappointed that we can't assign skills/spells in place of your primary attack and shield. For my play style, I rarely, if ever block. So using that slot for another skill would be awesome. Same goes for the main attack.

Regarding 1 & 2 Handed Melee skills, why not allow those to be leveled and equipable, regardless of which weapon you have equiped. Similar to other ARPG's, just balance the stat's as they pretty much are right now, ie: 1 Handed, less damage, fast attack / 2 Handed, more damage, slow attack. This way, I'm able to use Piercing Dash while using a 2 Handed weapon. You could rework the Melee skills, where they don't fall under 1 or 2 handed weapons, but rather effect the overall speed & damage dealt.

Having played just about every ARPG under the sun, I prefer Diablo's Skill/Talent Tree's. Games that do their own thing, just to be different, I find, limit the overall "enjoyment" when building your character. Torchlight, Victor Van, Van Helsing are just few examples. For the sake of replayability and catoring to your already gigantic fan base, you're already there...just mildly copy Diablo 2 and you'll have an ever lasting community.

When it comes to magic...well, it on a whole is lacking...the skills just don't fit, nor flow. Again, take a page from Diablo 2....Firewall, Blizzard, Nova, Meteor Shower, Teleport, Lightning Shield, Static....
While these suggestions would require more work in every aspect, I KNOW the payoff would be well worth it!!!!

 

[The G-Meister]

For the sake of replayability? I've already gotten over 500, now approaching 600 hours out of the game - I don't think a skill tree is going to impact that much for anyone really Even if Grindea's level up system is simple, it works. I think, as we get further into the late game, it'll become a different story, but simply reverting back to the bronze-silver-gold system will fix that, allowing only 1 gold skill by the end of the game. Otherwise you don't end up spending the rest of your points because it just becomes overcomplicated trying to use 5 different skills in harmony. As with a few suggestions I've seen, it sounds like a lot of unnecessary hassle for not a lot of impact in my eyes.

The magic skills are pretty innovative (for the most part) and can make some really interesting and enjoyable builds to both play and watch. We're making Secrets of Grindea here anyway, not another Diablo. Some skills work in really nice combos with the talent system, such as Meteor, Earth Spike and Prismatic, all of which allow you to sit at the other side of the area and bombard everything for a measly EP cost with quite a lot of damage. Although not my favourite build, Flamethrower and Frosty Friend work like cookies and milk in Arcade. One takes a few hits while the other roasts it's aggressive followers. Plant Summon by itself tears through almost everything when grinding and can get you all the gear and money you want while practically standing still and putting a plant down every now and then. I don't know how they don't fit or flow when people get the highest scores on the Arcade Leaderboards with them.

 

[Props]

While I love this game dearly (even though it's still in BETA), the skills just seem lacking for some reason. For me, it's all about a fast pace and AoE. I highly enjoy seamlessly linking attacks together...it just seems, that the skills don't compliment one another.

With all the available Melee Skills, I don't see myself using anything more than what I have here:


Removing the 1 & 2 Handed restrictions, along with the ability to assign skills to your primary attack and block, would open up a variety of immediate builds. Without even changing/adding new skills, I could see myself incorporating a handful of new builds. For example: Peircing Charge and Dodging Strike would grab my attention.

As it stands now, I'm level 20...and I don't see the point in doing anything else, aside from maxing 3 skills. Then what? Am I expected to use just these 3 skills the entire game!?!?

Also, I'd love to see new weapon types, such as the Boomerang, Whip and perhaps...Pistol? I have ton's of ideas...what do you think?

 

[The G-Meister]

The thing with Grindea is its not about mashing the hit button to build up combos. It relies a lot more heavily on timing, positioning and careful use of skills. If it seems like stuff doesn't link together it's because it's not meant to. I think piercing dash and dodging strike never had integration with combo-ing skill charges until someone suggested it - because that's not the way the game's designed.

As for 1H and 2H restrictions, you can assign weapons to hotkeys, allowing you to switch from one to the other. Someone suggested that there be an auto switch when a skill is used, which is just as bad as removing the barrier between the two. 1H relies on agility and reflex whereas 2H relies on timing and positioning, and they ultimately cater to two different types of play style.

Regarding the hotkeys, I'm not sure what it's like using a controller, but those slots are reserved because it's assumed that you'll use them. If you don't use the shield and just tank the damage, you're not playing the game the way it's meant to be played. Go hop into an arcade game as see how far you get If you're out of EP for using skills, then at least you've also got your weapon to bat things away with, at least temporarily. With mages it's a bit of a different story, so I can see where you're coming from, and with a controller space might get a little restricted.

At this stage, you'll master those three skills and use them extensively without touching many others until the end of the game I bet. That's why I think the bronze-silver-gold skill point system should be re-introduced, otherwise people become a Jack of all trades, master of none.

New weapon types? You've kinda got that stuff with skills already, and I don't think they'd fit with the game. With Zelda you pick up a new tool in each dungeon, which has both a practical purpose and an offensive purpose, and is often needed to beat the boss of that dungeon. I'd be nice to see something like that with Grindea, but Zelda is a lot more puzzley in terms of enemies, where in Grindea you can get away with smacking most things to death.

The range and path of a boomerang can be achieved with Ice Spikes, the high damage of a whip can be obtained from Heroic Slam and a pistol doesn't really fit the setting. Even so, Earth spike achieves the ranged damage. The thing is, with all of those, adding the extra weapons would make them both a bit stale, as they're essentially copies of one another. I understand why Own doesn't like Presents or Shroomies, as they're pretty much box shaped Slimes and mushroom shaped Jumpkins. They have very similar if not identical attack patterns. If that were introduced with skills (which it has been to an extent with Meteor and Earth Spike) they'd basically be copies of something we already have.

 

[Props]

Look man, the name of the game says it all, "Grindea". They boast loot and grinding. Well, in it's current state, I don't see variety being offered (especially end game). What's the point of finding loot, if it's all just subtle variations of a couple attributes. I'd like to think that this game is an overhauled Legend of Zelda, coupled with a loot driven Diablo. Hell, I don't want this to turn into either game, but the reality is, it's influence is clear as day. This is the game I'VE BEEN DREAMING of.

A boomerang could act as it does in legend of Zelda, a method to quickly grab loot from a distance. A whip could pull you across canyons. A pistol or gun, could act as an alternative to the Bow, high dmg, low attack speed. Skills can have weapon restrictions removed, but benefit or penalize depending on it's obvious compatibility with which ever equipped weapon. Nothing would suit me better, to quickly charge around the map using Piercing Dash, kiting a mob of enemies while wrecking the weaker ones using Whirlslash. Finish off the tougher enemies with Heroic Slam. Throw the boomerang to collect the loot that's a little too far from my loot grabbing radius. I will only use the controller for this game, as it's not a mouse point and click...and while I'm using the same amount of fingers, having to use modifiers just to access more than my favorite 2 skills hinders speed.



My play style doesn't involve me tanking anything. I don't really block, as I'm constantly on the move. I do, however, use the shield, especially when it serves it's purpose (boss battles). The brilliance of the shield is the ability to block...and with perfect guard; allow for a great "stun" mechanic.

ANyway, I have a lot more to add...but all this talk is making want to play the game...especially as I've got 24 hours playtime and haven't completed one playthrough! With all of the grinding, I haven't progressed any further than Seasonne!

 

[KoBeWi]

Boomerang actually sounds as an interesting alternative to bow. Maybe instead of making new weapon types, there could be some item "sub-weapons", like boomerang, bombs or slingshot or whatever. That wouldn't at least require separate skills, maybe some talents for "sub-weapons".

A whip could pull you across canyons.

Phase shifting plays this role.

 

[Ardeof]

I think that the main limitation that Secrets of Grindea currently has is limitation of creativity. Keep in mind the player's house hasn't been implemented yet, so this could change a bit. As it is right now though, the game is very linear when it comes to how it is played. Most of the thinking done when playing the game involves the puzzles or moving the character around, that's about as much freedom as the player has. Everything else is a flat experience. Prebuilt recipes to discover, prebuilt skills, prebuilt hair and clothing. While there are ways to have a character look different with bits of equipment, it's still a very fine and specific experience.

This is both a good thing and a bad thing about the game. What this means is that the devs should have a better idea how of the game is actually going to be played. The amount of skill combinations is quite low, and almost all of those combinations can be thought through quite easily. The lack of a real crafting system also means that players can't manipulate the game experience as much. So SoG as it is right now is a very mini AAA kind of experience. It's got the story, it's got the "Game to Cinematic insertions" and it's got solid gameplay. What it lacks is what made 10+ year old games very great. That of which is freedom of content experience and amazing crafting/customizing options.

It's fine though, as many games do this anyway so it's a niche problem that some would argue isn't a problem.

 

[Props]

I imagine that they want to rush along the main story, temples and maps, so they can let out a sigh of relief. The whole development process, should be looked at as if it were an essay (outline, rough & final draft). I'd say they're somewhere in between outline and rough draft. Having that out of the way, should allow the team to spend time adding, critiquing and balancing everything else. I wonder if the lack of passive skills and gold charges is because they don't haven't implemented it yet or they haven't got that far...

When they get to that point, they'll probably look to the community for ideas (especially those that have donated). I'd like to see a variation in weapon types and most important, the ability to have immediate access to just about the entire overworld. For the sake of early access, they probably closed off areas of the map with acquired game mechanics to keep players from falling off of the edge of the world That being said, having no insight to the development, I can see the game in its final, completed state. A fully accessible open world, entry to temples using skills acquired from the previous boss. Tons of weapons, armors and accessories that change the characters look once equipped. A skill and talent tree similar to the existing one, refined to compliment various character builds.

I'd like to see, then rework control bindings however...starting with the main attack and shield. Maybe they can start with quickslots and controller bindings, ie, Quickslots 1-12 w/ each having an individual binding. Of course, each binding could have a modifier. Look at torchlight 2 for an example...

 

[The G-Meister]

The only look changes are coming to the head, EG hats and facegear. There's so many hand drawn animations in the game its very difficult to change the look of the tunic/scarf as they've got to redo all the animations. Really, the players head is so big anyway it's not like it's gonna have a huge impact anyway.

The lack of passive skills is for a reason - I think they mentioned they were thinking of taking them out. I've already forwarded a couple ideas for passive skills that could work, but there's no way near enough to fill up a whole page.

In terms of idea donation, you can do that any time. Own has had a significant impact on the development of the game simply from forwarding his suggestions on the forum. As for those that have donated more, they really only have their dingle item that comes with the package they buy, otherwise I don't think the devs will prioritise them over anyone else. They're more likely to take ideas from the people who have played the game the longest, know how it works like the back of their hand, and know what the devs themselves want from their game. And I'm pretty sure that isn't whips, pistols and boomerangs (at least not the pistol).

If I'm honest, I'm glad there at least some unique abilities. I've seen boomerangs and pistols enough, and Indiana Jones practically has a monopoly over the whip. Phase shifting which incorporates bouncing off mirrors is pretty innovative in my book.

 

[Props]

Well, the idea behind the pistol, is to use the bow mechanic and just alter the graphics. I personally don't care if they incorporate the pistol, but then the story has refer to ancient tech...Why not expand the arsenal to match the story. It's just a matter of categorizing weapon classes and then creating sprites to go with it. Back when I used to mod DooM, the 8 directional sprites were the easy part. Developing the code is the difficult part. At this point, they have 2 melee and 1 range attack mechanic....

To be continued....

 

[The G-Meister]

That's where we divide. A reskin of a mechanic that's already in the game doesn't go down well in my books. If you just want it to look different, there's a mod idea for you. With Grindea, the magic skills are incredibly widely varied, so one thing being a reskin of another doesn't really work at all, as if there's variation, it's normally to a set standard.

With shooters, it's not very varied at all, but still tailored to fit player specific preferences, such as range, damage, rate of fire and explosives. That's fine when the audience you're selling to all have one thing in mind - they want to shoot people with guns. When your range spreads from summoning an ancient spirit to attack for you to firing a meteor from space, you can't just reskin one multiple times and get away with it. That's because they're catering to an audience that wants to be surprised by the wide variety of skills!

Yes the coding is difficult, but making a high-quality game shouldn't be easy. And yes, before anyone mentions agar . io, that was just popular, not necessarily an original or difficult game to make.

 

[Props]

I was more or less referring to expanding the weapon arsenal. They already have a bow, why not add alternatives, ie, crossbow. With other weapons, you can take the whip and from that, have other thrusting weapons, ie, lance.

With spells, it looks like there's 7 or 8 variations of in game mechanics. They could easily expand the availability of magic spells. What I'm getting at, is a final product that has more weapons and spells to choose from, that it would take multiple playthroughs to use them all. That sort of variety not only suits the title of game, but from my point of view, puts it up there with all time great games such as Zelda, Diablo...and by that, I don't necessarily mean ratings and reviews, but the amount of times I've personally played the games (Can't forget Castlevania: SoTN).

My hopes, that this game puts a notch in the history of gaming. Not necessarily for originality, but expanding and polishing already existing concepts, to create the greatest ARPG of all time. I've been following the development of this game way back when it was on Steam Greenlight. Hell, I think I was the fourth person to post there! What can I say, I'm already and have been in love with this game and especially the potential it HAS to offer.

 

[The G-Meister]

Expanding and polishing concepts doesn't make a game the best in it's genre. Look at hits like Minecraft and Super Hot, one practically creating an entirely new genre (the sandbox), the other being claimed as "the kick up the arse the FPS genre needed" - because they introduce new concepts and most importantly introduce them in a way that feels nice to play. It's satisfying to slice a bullet in half with a katana, it's awe inspiring to see stunning randomly generated terrain, knowing that practically no-one will have seen that sight before.

Then we look at Call of Duty: Black Ops III, and we're left with a "mostly positive" review score on Steam, because it's releasing more of the same stuff. It takes existing mechanics they came up with in the first game, and they've added on a tiny bit more each time, until we're left with a PC gaming community disappointed that the next full price release is, all in all, more of the same stuff, with a reskin. Even games like Zelda are following the same basic pattern of "find area, find dungeon, beat boss" - rinse and repeat. But that's on a much broader scale and often the basic sword fighting mechanics change from game to game (not an expert on that, but I've played a couple games now where they've all been slightly different).

And yes, I think Black Ops III has sold more copies than Minecraft - but that's because it's appealing the fans, who have been attached to the mechanics since the old days. If Minecraft were to start releasing more games with the same stuff but refined a bit (or even just with new textures), I'm sure the same thing would happen.

I don't know how much I need to reinforce my point that Grindea isn't getting better by adding more of the same stuff. I've given you the audience the game is appealing to and now case studies as to games with the best review scores. I don't see what else I need to put forward.

 

[KoBeWi]

And yes, I think Black Ops III has sold more copies than Minecraft

Actually, Minecraft is the best selling PC game ever.
Black Ops may only be better when we count sales in first days after release.

 

[The G-Meister]

Oh okay, thanks for that. Couldn't find any sales figures anywhere.

[Edit]: As a franchise however, I think CoD has hold more. Apparently it's topped over 250 million sales worldwide, over 10 times that of Minecraft. Taking into account how long both have been around, how big their development teams are and how much money they pour into each game might give us a more reliable figure.

 

[Props]

Expanding and polishing concepts doesn't make a game the best in it's genre. Look at hits like Minecraft and Super Hot, one practically creating an entirely new genre (the sandbox), the other being claimed as "the kick up the arse the FPS genre needed" - because they introduce new concepts and most importantly introduce them in a way that feels nice to play. It's satisfying to slice a bullet in half with a katana, it's awe inspiring to see stunning randomly generated terrain, knowing that practically no-one will have seen that sight before.

Come on man, I'm not trying to argue, however, while I purchased Minecraft a while back, I honestly don't care for it. I've been long done with and have overplayed FPS since way back playing DooM and Quake on my first Pentium computer(I owned 286's, 486's...but they weren't what I'd call gaming machines). It was ground breaking, that the general public was exposed to online multiplayer FPS with the release of the first Xbox, but I'd already been playing FPS online since the early 90's. Call of Duty...I loved it on the PC (When it was called, CoD, not sub titles). Really, I'm tired of video games as a whole. Xbox Live, headsets and children have ruined it for me. IAP has single handedly corrupted an otherwise genius handheld (moving towards the living room too) and Steam recognizes it...hence their overpriced and underpowered OS. But now, if you look at current gaming, it's funny, cause' everyone is going back to the "roots". Except I've been wanting this for well over a decade and my video game friends, their God of War and Elder Scrolls...they finally understand what I've been bitching about!!

I've been dreaming of the day, that a developer would come along, take all of the key ingredients that make my favorite games great, combine them, expand upon it and come up with what I think and know, will be one of the greatest games in the beginning of this century. I can honestly say, when it comes to games, I've always been ahead of the curve, when it comes to taste. While people were playing Goldeneye, I was playing, Quake/Unreal & DooM online, hosting servers with broadband and T1 lines. When consoles transitioned to 3D...I hadn't had enough of the 2D, 16 / 32bit formula..especially when consoles had the hardware to support gigantic, non-linear levels. When people had the ability to play online and chat at the same time, lingo like PWN and Hack, had different meanings...but became redefined by know-it-all children wearing tight pants.

Call of Duty was fun, but for me, it was before it was the renown console game. When I played, they had modified the Quake engine to support 32 players simultaneously online! The console version at the time, had been on the PSX, a watered down version that ran at 640x480 resolution and multiplayer was split screen..meanwhile, my computer was pushing 1024x786!! Anyway, sorry if it sounds like I'm bragging...all I'm really trying to say, is that I've been there and done that. I've all but given up on video games. Even though I've worked in the video game industry many years ago, I used to tell people my story and expectations of my "Dream" game.

Well, I'm hoping, Secrets of Grindea is it....I'd just hate to see it fall short, because they don't want to have an expansive variety of equipment. Options...variety...if that's their goal...they appeal to everyone under the sun. I looks like they're in no rush to complete it...so why not take as much time as possible and create a Super Legend of Zelda: The Diablo Adventure's of Loot & Grinding milestone!!!?!?!

 

[Props]

Plus, you should really read the http://www.secretsofgrindea.com/Home Page!



Key features says it all!!! I believe they mean it too!!

 

[MrChocodemon]

Do I really need to comment on this?
Both have read the homepage. I wouldn't be suprised if @KoBeWi and @The G-Meister have read everything on this forum ever posted.

The Pixel Ferrets will put as much loot into the game as they can. As you said the grind is an essential part and main focus of the game. But it will never, and is not supposed to, reach Diablo levels of loot.

While I love this game dearly (even though it's still in BETA), the skills just seem lacking for some reason. For me, it's all about a fast pace and AoE. I highly enjoy seamlessly linking attacks together...it just seems, that the skills don't compliment one another.

As it stands now, I'm level 20...and I don't see the point in doing anything else, aside from maxing 3 skills. Then what? Am I expected to use just these 3 skills the entire game!?!?

There will be more skills added and existing Skills will get tuned. For you it might be about fast paced AOE, but if you narrow your playstyle down like that, you should stop whining about variety. Yes, I know there are certain build which are superior, but this will be adressed later in development.

Also, I'd love to see new weapon types, such as the Boomerang, Whip and perhaps...Pistol? I have ton's of ideas...what do you think?

Maybe there will be new weapons types (but not a pistol...)

And you might think that your gaming history is impressive, but it sounds just like the thing everyone age 24+ has gone through and we all have expectations of SoG, but don't blame a game, which is made by 3 people, not suiting what you like. It is not made for you, but if you have the patience and make some proper suggestions you might be heard by the devs and they implement a few new weaponons.

 

[The G-Meister]

I've been dreaming of the day, that a developer would come along, take all of the key ingredients that make my favorite games great, combine them, expand upon it and come up with what I think and know, will be one of the greatest games in the beginning of this century.

If you want the best game in the world, the best course of action is to make it yourself. Don't think morphing something close to what you want into it is in any way a good idea.

 

[Props]

you should stop whining about variety

Jesus, I didn't take my suggestions as whining. The whole point of this thread, was to suggest binding quickslots to the controller, removing the restriction of your attack and defend, so that other, primary skills could be set in their place. For that matter, open up L1 & R1 for rebinding. On another note, I was pointing out possible directions they could take to implement new weapons. I used other games as examples, because as you know, ARPG's have been done before, and it would be nice to include aspects from those games, which made them great.

As far as I knew, it was a conversation...but every response, more and more became defensive. I was simply trying to explain my gaming history and why I don't play much now-a-days. I'm 35 btw. Anyway, rightfully so, you're defending the developer, I'm just not sure why this thread has become so "tense". My mindset was happy and excited...but for every thought I conveyed...not once did I demand the developers to DO THIS or THAT. Whatever. I'm clearly not welcome to express idea's here, without someone getting their panties in a bunch. But then, that's the current state of the internet now, F'n trolls.