Quickslots - Sword & Shield and then some...

GarlicJelly

Friendly Moderator (Formerly known as GoodStuff)
I'm sorry that you feel attacked for just posting a simple suggestion with the intention to contribute with something good. There are people here on the forum that have followed the development of this game for over 3 years and they are totally in love with everything as it is. When you've spent so much time playing a game you get attached to even the small things and therefore you can't always give an objective opinion on things that would change the gameplay a lot.

In your initial post you made a pretty strong claim that the game was simply not good enough as it is and that there HAD to be a change to make it good. For future reference it might be good to clarify that your own opinion on the matter is ___. As an example:

For the sake of replayability and catoring to your already gigantic fan base, you're already there...just mildly copy Diablo 2 and you'll have an ever lasting community.

Could have said:

In my opinion I think changing the skills for the sake of replayability and catoring to your already gigantic fan base would be more beneficial. Just mildly copy Diablo 2 and you'll probably have an everlasting community.

I'm not saying you've done anything wrong, Props. This whole arguing was simply caused by some devoted fans who misinterpreted your words. :)
 

The G-Meister

Giga Slime
Really, the suggestions part of the forum is a dark place. People's hopes and dreams for a game they love either get torn to shreds by people who know the game inside out, or completely lost and forgotten about, for the most part. Unless you're @Own. Damnit Own >.< I'm sure a lot of people have had this happen to them - including myself. I still hold the beliefs that Arcade mode isn't particularly welcoming to first-timers, the Flying Fortress is way too difficult for 1H builds, and Frosty Friend is way too OP, but I've been sat down on multiple occasions.

I'm also not with the Devs on every decision they make, but that's never related to the content additions and almost always related to the changes. I'm an indie gamer - I like a wider variety of new stuff to play with. From what I've seen of this game so far, it's more of an indie game than it is your typical ARPG, and therefore was basing my argument on the assumption it was going to stick to that trend.

The Devs also don't like loads of extra work. That's why they limited the number of fan-bought side quests available, as they care more about trying to finish what they've got going than making extra stuff to go on the side. Judging by these two pieces of experience I made the decision that the devs would be unlikely to implement more of the same stuff.

I guess if we both take something away from this debate, we're both competent internet users (no insults have been thrown around), and you should enter an argument with sufficient evidence and a decent conclusion to support it. I'm sorry if I overreacted a little at points - I just don't like repeating myself :p
 

Teddy

Developer
Staff member
Yeah, this thread surely escalated and strayed quite a bit! We pay these shrills a good deal of skrilla to write positive things about the game, so they take their job seriously!

Jokes aside, I think GoodStuff hit the nail on the head with people getting defensive of the game because they don't want it to change quite the way you want (but I think everyone wants it to change a little, in their own preferred direction)

Regarding the rebinding of Attack/Shield on controllers, I intend to fix that some day for sure. I'll ashamedly admit it's because I made some mistakes in the beginning that it's trickier to fix than it should be. By no means "impossible" or even "daunting", but rather... cumbersome and bug prone.

As for the skills, I agree with the analysis that the skills are usually not combo-friendly. It's not that we hate combos and designed the game to not use them, but rather that we decided on a different focus, and that focus was skill variety in the sense that no two skills would be re-skins. I'm not going to argue for or against any particular system here - I think it's hard to tell what's "best" when everyone's opinion differs.

I don't want to give definite answers on anything, though, since as you say we do have as the current goal to power through content right now and sort of... see where the pieces stand when they're all there, in order to polish them up into something sensible and coherent! I don't think it's likely that we'll do a skill overhaul or major additions in terms of weapon classes, but you never know. It is as you say, that once you've gotten used to a skill and maxed it, it kind of becomes your go-to thing to use for the rest of the game. Not sure how I feel about that, but even that problem is difficult to judge the size of in the game's unfinished state!

I'm just rambling at this point, so I'll just post the reply and get back to making Chinese glyphs render properly for the item names...
 

Teddy

Developer
Staff member
The Devs also don't like loads of extra work.

Ah, yes, that puts a good context on things too. We have a limited supply of Development Powerto make the game with, and channeling this in a good way is really hard. We're often watching Let's Plays and VODs of streams to see how people play the game, taking mental and actual notes on what people enjoy, what they get confused by, and what annoys them. That's often the basis off how we move things around in the priority list.

While I think the skill system has weaknesses, it's actually not a huge source of discontent (which is lucky, because it's a huge load of work). If we're seeing a lot of people playing through the game and realizing "hey, I'm in the fourth temple now and I'm still murdering stuff with Whirlslash, what's up with that" then we'll have to assess and address the problem... but until then, we should focus our attention on more immediate things. It's no good spending time on expensive features when their value is yet unclear!

HAHA, look at me go! Sorry, @TsReaper , I'll get back to work for real now
 

Props

Rabby
There are people here on the forum that have followed the development of this game for over 3 years and they are totally in love with everything as it is.

I could be one of those people...
Steam date.jpg

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/92916246/828925216418661147/
I've been following this game for a long while too...is that what we use to measure seniority?

Give me an original game mechanic that hasn't been done yet. Just like South Park and Butters not wanting to copy something the Simpsons did, found it impossible. Everything has just about been done before...lol It'll be almost impossible for the developers to create something in the ARPG genre, that hasn't been done before. They may have mentioned diablo in one of the developers posts....legend of zelda too....
 

Props

Rabby
As for the skills, I agree with the analysis that the skills are usually not combo-friendly. It's not that we hate combos and designed the game to not use them, but rather that we decided on a different focus, and that focus was skill variety in the sense that no two skills would be re-skins. I'm not going to argue for or against any particular system here - I think it's hard to tell what's "best" when everyone's opinion differs.

I don't want to give definite answers on anything, though, since as you say we do have as the current goal to power through content right now and sort of... see where the pieces stand when they're all there, in order to polish them up into something sensible and coherent! I don't think it's likely that we'll do a skill overhaul or major additions in terms of weapon classes, but you never know. It is as you say, that once you've gotten used to a skill and maxed it, it kind of becomes your go-to thing to use for the rest of the game. Not sure how I feel about that, but even that problem is difficult to judge the size of in the game's unfinished state!

I'm just rambling at this point, so I'll just post the reply and get back to making Chinese glyphs render properly for the item names...

Just a quick reply, I agree with everything you said 100% I'm just an enthusiast that's been following this game, the instant I discovered it! Who am I to tell the Dev's what to do? Therefore, I have no expectations, but can, with 100% certainty, tell you that I'll love this game, regardless of how the final version differs from my

Props' DreamGame.jpg
 

GarlicJelly

Friendly Moderator (Formerly known as GoodStuff)
I could be one of those people...
View attachment 1400

http://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/discussion/92916246/828925216418661147/
I've been following this game for a long while too...is that what we use to measure seniority?

Give me an original game mechanic that hasn't been done yet. Just like South Park and Butters not wanting to copy something the Simpsons did, found it impossible. Everything has just about been done before...lol It'll be almost impossible for the developers to create something in the ARPG genre, that hasn't been done before. They may have mentioned diablo in one of the developers posts....legend of zelda too....
Oh, my bad. I just assumed that you were newer to the game since I haven't seen you around the forum much before. :(

I don't think the game needs new/different mechanics. The game already jokes about the ARPG stereotype and I think the game should stay that way. Instead of bringing something new it brings tiny pieces of other good games that makes it more interesting to discover what all the references and inspiration comes from. Secrets of Grindea isn't breaking new ground for other games but rather riding the wave of other popular games. :p
 

The G-Meister

Giga Slime
I'd like to write my final post in this thread as an apology. I'm not sure exactly why, but my quality of writing has been slacking off in my posts more recently, and it's showing - not only here, but in other threads as well. It is for that reason my last post here got deleted. I did not intend to hurt anyone's feelings in my head, but when the thoughts turned into words, and words were typed into text, there was a bit of a miscommunication in my body, and what ended up being put into some of these posts has sounded far more aggressive that I wished, looking back at them now.

From now on (at least when it comes to suggestions), I'll read over my writing before I post it, as well as keeping a neutral tone where possible. Hopefully this will avoid any mistakes in communication and help make the suggestions section a lot more welcoming, as it is most likely my fault which has led to me believing the suggestions section is a dark and evil place.

Thanks to whoever deleted my post - gave me the kick up the arse I needed :p In case you want to, @Props, add me on Steam and perhaps we'll do an Arcade run or a bit of grinding together.
 

Props

Rabby
Don't sweat it, I wasn't buthurt. I know how forums can get, that's why it took me this long to sign up here.

Regarding the rebinding of Attack/Shield on controllers, I intend to fix that some day for sure. I'll ashamedly admit it's because I made some mistakes in the beginning that it's trickier to fix than it should be. By no means "impossible" or even "daunting", but rather... cumbersome and bug prone.

That's your department!?!? Take a look at Torchlight 2, it's a decent concept for controls and keybindings. It is a little confusing at first, but each quick slot has 2 bindings, 1st is the button, 2nd is for a modifier. Lol, thinking about it, I get why reworking the controls is not high on the priority list.

If you want to add me on Steam, my account name is Props024.
 
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