Visually or mechanically weak maximum charge skills.

Own

Moderator
I've touched on some of these before, but have different thoughts on them after a while.

Fireball: Mechanically alright, visually somewhat lacking. When I think 'MAXIMUM FIREBALL', I imagine something more akin to a hadoken. It seems like the phoenix should at least be 1.5 to 2x bigger. Unless maximum gold charge skills aren't meant to be super epic.

Earthspike: For a while it's bothered me that there's never an earth spike. It's an earth pillar. It seems like the final pillar of earth should actually be spikey, with a pointed tip. Also, the ordering of the animation is reversed. It launches you into the air with an earth pillar, then you land on the fist for extra damage. Shouldn't you be launched by the fist and land on the spike?

Flamethrower: No visual chalge between silver and maximum gold. I think a while back the plan was to give flamethrower blue flames at max, to set it apart. Would love to see that added at the next skill tinkering update.

Insect Swarm: I saw maximum gold insect kill an enemy and then die half a second later. The skill at it's base level says it ressurects insects if they land the killing blow on an enemy, prolonging it's duration. So I did some experimenting.

I went to Red Gigaslime, cast max Insect Swarm. Duration: 19 seconds, then die. I went to Pillar Mountains, south of spawn, gathered a large herd of quickly respawning enemies. They consistently ripped through every enemy available. Duration: 19 seconds, then die.

What is their +duration on kill / +fly on kill bonus supposed to be? Or is it bugged? Should this go in the bug reports forum...?

Frostnova: Max charge of Frostnova did 473 damage. Insect Swarm did around 2,000. Fireball 1700, with +400 dmg DoT afterwards. This is too weak to be viable against anything, unless it gets +DMG or some sort of blizzard aura for a few seconds around the caster, slowing or damaging enemies.

Ice Spike: Max charge did 630 damage. Too weak to be viable.

Meteor: Max charge does 950, then an DoT up to 1750 total. It's much harder to use than fireball, costs more and misses often. So why does it have much less damage than fireball?

Smash: I've harped on this one foreeever, because I want to enjoy it and it is perpetually unejoyable. This will never be more than an often ignored gimmicky skill like Windslash in it's current state. Many enemies are immune to being flung about or too big to go far, or are fought 1 on 1. Add to that that it's really difficut to launch an enemy where you want. Call them smashballs, spirit balls or whatever, but they need to exist in the game in some form for anyone to have fun with Smash, playing it like a golfing skill. Maybe if you charge smash up to it's basic charge, it spawns a spirit ball nearby for several seconds. The higher you charge, the more powerful the ball.

Additionally, for it to be more viable, charging Smash should extend a short red line away from all targets around you. To show where they will be sent flying if you smash them, based on your current position to them.

Dodging Strike: A debuff that adds +10% damage for 4 seconds seems a bit on the weak side for a perfect dodge. Being able to perfect dodge an attack is impressive enough to warrant something fancier than that. Mom seems to use dodging strike against the dragon, where it gets hit with a few strikes after her retreat. It would be nice to see that added to Dodging Strike. Though maybe unecessary. :p
 

KoBeWi

Jumpkin
Frostnova: Max charge of Frostnova did 473 damage. Insect Swarm did around 2,000. Fireball 1700, with +400 dmg DoT afterwards. This is too weak to be viable against anything, unless it gets +DMG or some sort of blizzard aura for a few seconds around the caster, slowing or damaging enemies.

Ice Spike: Max charge did 630 damage. Too weak to be viable.
It also chills and freezes enemies, so damage is lower to balance it. I especially like how nova helps you when you are surrounded.
 

Own

Moderator
And fireball/meteor burn enemies. They both have debuffs, but I don't believe chill/freeze is substantially better than burn to warrant a difference of base damage. Especially a difference of 1/4 - 1/6 the damage.

Burn: Kills every enemy quicker.
Chill/freeze: Does nothing vs bosses, does little vs enemies with low HP. Good vs tanky enemies, I guess, but if your primary skill is maxed Frostnova/Spike, you're going to be fighting them for significantly longer thanks to the rock bottom damage.
 

Kana

Rabby
@Own and @KoBeWi

I have never played a game in which Fire magic wasn't the strongest in pure damage (out of an elemental spectrum), even extra effects are usually additional damage over time. It makes sense to me that it's opposite would be the weakest--- damage-wise.

I agree with everything you're saying, and maybe a damage buff could help.
But I don't think that matching fire spells in damage is the right solution...

Ice magic is most often implemented as a damage/utility hybrid, in the form of slowing, and other ways. It is useful for trapping enemies that try to escape (usually other players, or mobs that can heal), and making them easier to combo.

But even though it is implemented in this way, enemies don't run from you or heal in Grindea, so typically it only combos well with the manual-aiming spells, and easier shielding.
Since most mobs move toward you through simple pathing, the strongest abilities are fast and short range, (basic melee and flamethrower) so usually slowing them makes it harder to kill them, since they come at you more slowly.
I have also found that Ice Nova makes it more difficult for friends to fight, by displacing their targets.

I think that a better solution to buffing Ice magic would be to add more complex or faster movement for enemies, or enemies that will run away and regenerate health after avoiding damage for a period, so that the slowing utility would be a benefit rather than a hindrance. Otherwise, it will be less viable than other magic, even if it had the same raw damage potential.

As for fighting bosses, Ice magic could simply extend their vulnerability periods (slow, but in a different way) for a minuscule amount based on how much 'ice damage' they take during it.
 
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Kana

Rabby
I failed to notice that 2 out of the 3 Ice spells excel at creating space. *Facepalm*

So there is another type of utility it provides.
 
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