Lore speculations / discussion (spoiler alert!)

res7less

Jumpkin
Seems like Dad doesn't know that there's one more artifact, so I wonder how will we end up getting it.

Also, battle with possessed Luke.

Yeah, I didn't even fully read or translate those as they're not in the game yet. I started but then I thought nope.

Edit: For non translators - it's a dialogue that happens with Dad after turning in the crown. Not sure I'd recommend reading it yet.
 

KoBeWi

Jumpkin
Not sure I'd recommend reading it yet.
The dialogue is about the location of the next artifact and someone who went to look for it. There's some interesting twist, that might end up in an interesting boss battle.

It's the first thing we will learn next update so...
 

The G-Meister

Giga Slime
Another thing I'll just throw in because I don't think anyone's quoted it yet. In response to the remark about "The one that got away", Feit says "don't worry. It was not part of the spell, nor is it powerful."

Seems like a pretty fitting description of a bag. Which one, we still don't know. I'm not sure in what sense that it wasn't "part of the spell" though. It could be that, because it wasn't an artefact that gives the wearer any significant extra power, they (or the spell they were given) had no reason to remove it. Or, as we occasionally hear in stories of gods and blessings, it was the one catch that could tear the spell apart.

The Pandora's Bag.
 

res7less

Jumpkin
What worries me more about the dialogue you're quoting from is the thing about the price to pay for "the beast we have awakened". If they mean Zhamla by the beast, then why do they feel responsible? Was Preia the priestess that told Sizou about the vision? As far as I know the only High Priests are Fait and Shinsai and Sizou mentioned a high priestess. If it's not her, then what is their involvement in Zhamla's "awakening"? Did they invoke those powers within him? To what purpose and how exaclty? Do they know where Zhamla originally comes from before being adopted by Sizou (still crossing fingers on Grindea's son)? Did they make sure baby Zhamla is adoped and raised by Sizou? Was Zhamla some "experiment" that backfired? So many questions, so few answers.

By "part of the spell" I think they just mean the Spell of Ceiling. They probably only targeted the powerful artifacts with it along with Zhamla.
 

The G-Meister

Giga Slime
So many questions, so few answers.
A side effect of speculation you'll just have to live with :p I'd say focus more on the things we can give a plausible answer to, or have any hints for, or you'll end up putting yourself on too much of a cliffhanger you'll fall off ;)
They probably only targeted the powerful artifacts with it along with Zhamla.
It's either the casters or the spell that made the decision. Seen as Shinsai said the spells were gifted by the Goddess I feel it was more a decision on the Goddess' part, which would mean this bag business would be staged. Hence Pandora's Bag (which is what I'll call the "Bag is evil" speculation from now on :D)
 

Own

Moderator
But I don't know, I still refuse to believe that Pao Zhi and Bag are the same.

In case you missed it:

index.php


Pao Zhi was with Zhamla. Pao Zhi didn't appear in the sealing ritual. It was the one that escaped. That's some insane misdirection if they are different. :D

The true Zhamla, however, the one we get to know, is only in Tai Ming 1 where he was a child. But it's not until Tai Ming 2 that Pao Zhi gets assigned to Zhamla - and there he already started getting cocky and angry and obsessed.

It could be they had met when Zhamla was younger. Mundi takes the artifacts out for sunshine all the time, from what we can see in Tai Ming 1 and 2.
 

res7less

Jumpkin
Seen as Shinsai said the spells were gifted by the Goddess I feel it was more a decision on the Goddess' part, which would mean this bag business would be staged.
That would be part of Grindea's masterplan then :D

In case you missed it:
No, no, I didn't miss it, I'm translating all this stuff after all. I agree that everything points towards it and in the end it will probably be like this, but it still seems off to me, because of the reasons I mentioned and some other minor discrepancies. For example Pao Zhi completely strikes me as female, while Bag's personality certainly seems male; Pao Zhi wants to see the world, while Bag wants loot; When we find Shiidu, she hasn't changed a bit, while Bag and Pao Zhi look completely different except for the brown color - we have no reason to assume that artifacts age. But perhaps I'm overthinking it again. The answers don't always have to be complicated :D
 

Own

Moderator
For example Pao Zhi completely strikes me as female, while Bag's personality certainly seems male; Pao Zhi wants to see the world, while Bag wants loot; When we find Shiidu, she hasn't changed a bit, while Bag and Pao Zhi look completely different except for the brown color - we have no reason to assume that artifacts age.

Pao is empty of loot, sheltered and eager to see what the world has.

Bag is full of loot, bitter, jaded and has a thousand years of experience wandering the earth. He looks old and weathered, even has a 'scar' in the form of a patch. He's probably either been alone for a long, long time or has been passed down between dozens of masters, watching them die. That explains the stark personality contrast, naivette vs worn down by time.

Shiidu, Amalet and the others looking the same I could chalk up to them being sealed or locked away for a thousand years, unchanging in isolation.
 

res7less

Jumpkin
Shiidu, Amalet and the others looking the same I could chalk up to them being sealed or locked away for a thousand years, unchanging in isolation.
Yeah, but you gotta admit, that would be pretty weak.

And speaking about a thousand years of experience. I'm surprised it took Bag so long to find some fools to do his bidding. Thousand years is a heck of a lot of time. Maybe there was no one powerful enough until the player's ancestors showed up? Or is there a specific reason he had to wait? Unlike the other artifacts, he is able to move on his own, even though slowly, so he doesn't have to rely on being found as the other artifacts are.

And another thought: The spell separated Zhamla and his artifacts and the artifacts all end up in different locations in the end but alive, well and memoryless. But what about Zhamla himself? Did he get to live until the end of his days as a powerless human without knowing what he has done? Or he is he too sealed/preserved somewhere?
 

The G-Meister

Giga Slime
Did he get to live until the end of his days as a powerless human without knowing what he has done? Or he is he too sealed/preserved somewhere?
It's a shame there's a very convenient time warp which both gets you out of his grasp and obscures what happens next :D
 

TsReaper

Boar
After the update, the dialogue of Bishop in the Pumpkin Woods has changed into the following one.

You carry a peculiar aura. A large shadow causing ripples in the pond of fate.

But beneath you lurks an even larger beast - a creature whose fate has been intertwined with yours since ages past.

Who shall devour whom? My Goddess and I will watch you with great interest...

I wonder what the "beast" is... Does the "beast" refer to Zhamla, or Bag, or someone else?
 

Own

Moderator
Seems like Dad doesn't know that there's one more artifact, so I wonder how will we end up getting it.

Also, battle with possessed Luke.


I just realized something, looking back at this. Luke is terrible at puzzles. There is no way he would be sent anywhere on a dangerous mission that required more than just brute force. He's not getting to the end of a dungeon solo.

Luke would no doubt seek the aid of someone 'smart' to help him with the puzzles. Someone who knows all about puzzles, who had seen you complete plenty of them...

:naniva:

Please, god, make Naniva suspiciously absent from Santa Fae after the next story update. All I want is one battle with her bombarding you with leaves, plants, birds and all things spring. Can you say catharsis? :D We've already beat up most people we know and every other season. He's had plenty of time to go to Santa Fae, he talked about being sent on a secret S-Rank mission when we were heading to Mt. Bloom.

(Alternatively, the Merchant Isles is nearby, right? Luke + Marino buddy mission?)
 

res7less

Jumpkin
Or he is he too sealed/preserved somewhere?
I remembered that even Fait says "Contemplate on your sins in your eternal prison.", so it may truly be possible that Zhamla is still alive somewhere and may get a redemption arc later on. The question is who the real villain is, that Zahmla's help will be required for.
 

KoBeWi

Jumpkin
One more thing I found. When Zhamla kills Sizou, Faita says "You monster!" It might be possible, that killing (ie. murdering) another human is what makes you sort of monster-aligned so you can drop a card. That might support the theory that defeating Zhamla will yield a Human Card.

EDIT:
And what about the possibility that the Goddess is the true antagonist and she needs a Human Card to incarnate into the world? (lol)
 
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Own

Moderator
One more thing I found. When Zhamla kills Sizou, Faita says "You monster!" It might be possible, that killing (ie. murdering) another human is what makes you sort of monster-aligned so you can drop a card. That might support the theory that defeating Zhamla will yield a Human Card.

'An interesting thing to note is that, throughout all the wars observed in history, not once has a human card been observed.'

Awful lot of people killing and getting killed there. :p I think Faita was just being insulting and Zhamla ignored the remark until he could be an ass about it. Personally I think there is no human card, it's just a white whale to endlessly pursue in a fruitless chase. Though Zhamla did wind up creating a new card by killing Sizou, or getting sealed, in the form of Echo of Madness.
 

KoBeWi

Jumpkin
'An interesting thing to note is that, throughout all the wars observed in history, not once has a human card been observed.'
Well, not everyone during a war is a true killer. Some people just fight to protect themselves or under someone's orders, and that's different than aforethought murdering. Also, the drop rate might be sooo low, that it's unlikely you'd get it from non-elite.
We'll see how it unfolds eventually.
 

The G-Meister

Giga Slime
Also, the drop rate might be sooo low, that it's unlikely you'd get it from non-elite.
This is why I hope random card drops aren't a part of the lore. I've put enough time into a partially working adjusted card drop formula, because, after a bit of calculation, I found that, for card drop chances smaller than about 1/100, only 95% of people won't have the card after killing 3 times the average number of enemies. Seen as there are over 20 cards in the game, on average, every player will have to kill one type of enemy to over 3x the drop rate's average. This is why we get common complaints about card drops being bugged :p
 

res7less

Jumpkin
I just realized that it's impossible to complete the card album, because there is one card that is even rarer than any card combined. In fact, this card might even be impossible to obtain and even if such a thing as a human card existed, this other card definitely beats it. I can barely imagine what unlimited power that card must contain. That card I am talking about... is a chicken card.
 

res7less

Jumpkin
I just figured out a small chunk of that weapon's history. Do you remember Preia telling about how Grindea bestowed weapons unto farmers, who then started grinding? Well, one of them was called Terra, who, as we know, is a reference to the Final Fantasy VI Terra Branford. She has green hair in her normal form, but in her esper form, her hair and body color change to pink. And what color does the woman on the portrait have where we get the blade? Pink. Ladies and gentlemen, I rest my case.

WARNING: Following statement is based on hypothetical content. Don't read if you are not following the discussion in the patch notes threads.
Additionally, Teddy mentioned that it is eventually going to be three such weapons, even though it's not confirmed. And there were three farmers, who Grindea bestowed the weapons upon. So we will eventually be able to wield the weapons of the first humans that entered Grindea's service.
 
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