Turning with shield: RB&LB

Blaize

Green Slime
It happens to me regularly that I somehow end up blocking into the wrong direction, and then I have to release block to turn which simply feels clunky. How about allowing us to turn while blocking with RB and LB? I haven't a clue about keyboard controls, but I bet there are decent buttons for this too.

I think allowing this would simply increase skill cap and make the game even more fun without significant downside.
 

The G-Meister

Giga Slime
Hm, it's not very convenient using the default key bindings, but with WASD you can use Q and E. The thing with shielding is I think it was designed that way, that you're locked in a direction, such that if something attacks behind you, you can't just turn around - you have to run away.
 

Blaize

Green Slime
Well yes, right now it is designed that way. But think about how much fun it would be to be able to turn while blocking while you also have the blocking mobility talent. Block everything like a boss until your shield energy runs out.
 

The G-Meister

Giga Slime
The idea of blocking is preventing damage to yourself while stunning the enemy that attacked you, such that you retaliate. The game isn't designed in a way such that "blocking like a boss" is a viable option because your shield HP runs out. It's designed such that you return the offence at some point. If there's simply too many enemies to block, you're doing it wrong. You've got to whittle out a few, or use your skills in a way which lets you use some advanced awareness to take them all out at once. Often, when enemies are grouped up, it's a good time to strike them all anyway, mean you can get more damage output for a single hit.

I only shield when it's a 1 on 1 situation and my dodging strike is an inferior option, for example against boars or peckoes. You whittle out all the other enemies, then take them 1 on 1.

Yeah, it would be a blast blocking like a badass, but it's not very productive :p
 

Thalldor

Green Slime
I'm personally not too fond of the blocking system as there have been many times (And possibly habit) is that in a split second time I will press Copy + f and then D but because my shield comes first and I can't move when my shield is out I fail the block and I would be more fond of being able to switch directions with the shield as I usually wait until the last second but if that last second requires me to turn around it makes it very difficult to actually block. Heck, I would be more happy if I couldn't move at all but I could quickly switch directions since usually when I pop my shield I don't really move and in a split second situation.
 

Blaize

Green Slime
What Thalldor describes is part of what makes blocking feel clunky to me. Think about:

You just blocked a bee in front of you, but a boar is about to attack you in the back and there is no time to dodge (not everyone uses dodging strike). What you should instinctively want to do is turn around with your shield immediately (or still) up and then move out of the way while you find a window to attack from. This is currently impossible, as you are stuck with a dilemma. Either you follow the instinct to back off, which will fail because you were too late. Or you MUST move TOWARDS the boar so that you can raise your shield again. This makes no sense at all. What makes it worse, is that you were moving slowly just a second ago, and the move towards the boar is completely unintended so you'd rather move slowly towards him if you cant just do it from standing still, but the moment you turn around your shield is dropped so your move towards the boar is suddenly fast. Like a suicide pilot. Sure, this doesn't mean that you necessarily get hit but it does feel clunky.

And G-Meister, you are basically saying that the mechanic isn't that powerful for the player. The way I hear it that is all the more reason to implement it ;)
 

The G-Meister

Giga Slime
The point is, you work around the shield as it's implemented now. You're proposing what would be quite a huge change to a major mechanic of the game, and would completely change a lot of playstyles. The way I do it, I wouldn't have blocked the bee if I saw the boar running behind me in the first place, I would've relocated to a more comfortable position whereby I can block the boar without the bee attacking me at the same time. In fact, if you use the shield as it is, you would've prioritised the boar over the bee as it's a much stronger threat as it deals more damage and you can't stun its attacks. You're meant to keep enemies in a nice cone in front of you rather than all sides. If you've got enemies in front and behind you, you're simply doing it wrong :p
 

GarlicJelly

Friendly Moderator (Formerly known as GoodStuff)
The shield is the single most difficult thing to use in the game because it's a really good tool in combat. A lot of enemy mechanics revolve around the fact that if you're skilled enough with the shield you'll be rewarded. Some enemies get stunned when you perfect block them, some enemies don't even need to be perfectly blocked to get stunned and some enemies have their projectiles reflected back at them. Holding down a button is not rewarding in any way. IMO holding down the shield button is boring. I'd rather take damage the few times I don't turn around quick enough rather than having a stationary shielding mechanic. :p
 

The G-Meister

Giga Slime
I'd rather take damage the few times I don't turn around quick enough rather than having a stationary shielding mechanic. :p
I'd love to agree with you there, but in arcade that simply isn't the case. A perfect block is normally a nice addition, but rarely necessary, when the primary purpose is to block damage for an instant or two :p
 

Thalldor

Green Slime
I'd love to agree with you there, but in arcade that simply isn't the case. A perfect block is normally a nice addition, but rarely necessary, when the primary purpose is to block damage for an instant or two :p

Indeed, I must say that this is true because all you need to do is block very quickly to the right and if you're facing from the front you are most likely to fail the block depending how fast it is coming towards you meaning there is A LOT of re-positioning that is required usually... at least in my case.(edit:: if you're accounting other things to attack if you were to block and stuff)
 
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Teddy

Developer
Staff member
On the topic of impossible situations: the shield hoster animation is shield cancelable itself, so you can turn around in 2 game frames by holding a direction and then re-pressing the shield button.

As for the clunky feeling of having to perform a two-button sequence to turn rather than pressing a button/a few buttons to become stationary, I personally feel adding control complexity is just as bad (actually, I think it's worse)!

The example of RB+LB would cycle through tracked quests every time it was used, for example.
 

Blaize

Green Slime
Teddy's post made me realize I should probably control my blocking differently. I realize I have much more control and my reaction time is greatly improved when I use the D-pad rather than analog stick. Also, rather than attempt a super fast and flawless sequence of guard release >> new direction >> guard which for some reason fails sometimes, I now keep the blocking direction held down for a bit and release and press guard as fast as I can. This again greatly improves the speed at which I can change guard direction! I would probably feel even more comfortable if I set blocking to LB, so I might do that as well.
 

Blaize

Green Slime
And mine didn't?! :p I guess I'm gonna have to carry some authority supplements around with me. You okay with that @GoodStuff?

Hahaha well you were saying I should dodge better instead of try to turn really fast :p. But don't worry G-Meister, your videos show me that I can improve in plenty of other ways ;)
 
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