Vilya's Work-blog! (aka Pixel Ferrets behind the scenes)

The G-Meister

Giga Slime
The doors are only there to make the place seem bigger than it is, really!

Are you saying we're never gonna be able to enter the dining hall? I was really looking forward to grabbing myself and infinitely regenerating drumstick :(
 

Vilya

Developer
Staff member
Are you saying we're never gonna be able to enter the dining hall? I was really looking forward to grabbing myself and infinitely regenerating drumstick :(
Oh no, in Evergrind's HQ we definitely aim make all the rooms available at some point! So don't worry, that dining hall should reopen again sometime in the future (unless we decide to put something else there, of course) ^^
 

Own

Moderator
http://www.vilyaroo.com/

Vilya's been posting a ton of stuff about the Puzzle Palace.

The only thing I can think of adding to it is another photographer with more cutouts, maybe necessary. Unless you want to add a photographer to each instance of a festival-type place in the game.

It would be kind of neat if, on the way to the exams in the very beginning, you could talk to a photographer in Evergrind who makes your party line up in a row for a picture taken too. :D Photo albums~
 

Own

Moderator
WHO'S THAT POKEYMANS?

http://www.vilyaroo.com/2016/10/boss-design-mimic.html

IT'S DITTO!

There's only one real special attack I hope to see. http://secretsofgrindea.com/forum/i...d-the-mimic-using-mostly-in-game-assets.5584/

Attack #4: Sabotuer Card. Every 25% HP lost Green the Mimic has a card launch over it's head, one for each person playing though players only see the card meant for them. It launches towards players like normal cards do - only it pops up the announcement [Card Album INFILTRATED!] [Take # damage, +10% per card obtained.] A nasty hit to anyone who has been 100% collecting. Can be shielded, or perfect guarded to launch back at the mimic.

Pleeease? <3
 

Teddy

Developer
Staff member
Pleeease? <3

The chest is going to spew out all kinds of junk, and I rather like the idea of a card being one of them!

However, the card popup is so distracting that I might be more inclined to go for a watered down version of the card just being a nuke or a curse (slowing, being targeted by stuff, etc) or something...

Disclaimer: this is my personal opinion and I haven't talked to Fred and Vilya about it :chicken:
 

Own

Moderator
Sounds like a good incentive to shield it to me. :D Distraction / annoyance as a penalty, ala Blindless.

But yeah, exploding on contact if not shielded sounds fun too.
 

GingerCookie387

Green Slime
Hey if anybody reads this im new to the forums and i dont really know how it work around here. so, if anyone could be very kind and give a "tour" that will really help.Tnx:chicken::)
 

Own

Moderator
November 2

But the future refused to change...

http://www.vilyaroo.com/2016/11/the-future-of-tai-ming.html

We also didn't want the player to feel frustrated because they can't go back to, say, the first zone, and simply try to convince Zhamla or Sizou to change their ways once you realize how events in that zone turned Zhamla from a young, optimistic boy into a serious and rather obsessed young man.

It seems like it could be handled with a workaround, like just timelocking all the plot NPCs. Tessen, Zhamla, Sizou, Mana, Kinton, everyone who matters to the story just made into motionless statues that only give a prompt when spoken to once you clear the temple.

"Their story told, they are frozen in time's memory"

But mainly I just really like Tai Ming's design, animations, characters and music and want to see them again after completion. :D I can always make a back-up save file, though, I suppose!
 

Vilya

Developer
Staff member
We're very happy with the past version of Tai Ming, we spent a lot of time working on it (as you guys know), and it is kind of sad to have it be a place you can only experience for a limited time. However, in the end I definitely believe it's the right decision!

I think it gives a better sense of "finality" when there's no way of going back there: the people of the town are long dead and I kind of appreciate the bittersweet feeling I get from knowing there's no way to see them again (though maybe that's just me waving goodbye to countless hours of sprites never to be seen again :chicken:)
 

The G-Meister

Giga Slime
I'm with Own here. While I agree with the sense of finality, and I think that adds a really powerful touch, we're dealing with a videogame here. I've read about the plans to implement a way to return in one way or another to get the items if you missed them, but I just don't think that'll ever make it feel right. My only strong reason for this is that each temple so far has left you with an ability you can apply to the wider world. Phase Shifting and Season Changing are both used outside of their respective temples, and if you close all the time rifts at the end then can this skill be applied to the wider world? It's disappeared from it's place of origin, therefore why should it appear anywhere else?

My gut feeling that pushes me this way, though, is the fact that I play Grindea for the gameplay. The unique dialogue. The combat. The puzzles. I don't have that reminiscence of Secrets of Mana, or any other old school RPG. I barely get any of the references. I don't want to come away from Tai Ming sobbing my eyes out because of the emotional trauma it's put me through by the reality of death and the consequences of my lust for artefacts because that's not what the game is to me.

With the way I've experienced this game thus far, I don't think it's gonna work. Just, for the love of god, do a good job (which I'm sure you will). Don't do an Ori and the Blind Forest on me and put me off 100% :(
 

Teddy

Developer
Staff member
With the way I've experienced this game thus far, I don't think it's gonna work. Just, for the love of god, do a good job (which I'm sure you will). Don't do an Ori and the Blind Forest on me and put me off 100% :(

Just out of pure off topic curiosity: what about Ori put you off? The end of the prologue? (use spoiler tags if necessary!) PS: I'm not some Ori fanboy so don't worry about arguments :D
 

TsReaper

Boar
Just out of pure off topic curiosity: what about Ori put you off? The end of the prologue? (use spoiler tags if necessary!) PS: I'm not some Ori fanboy so don't worry about arguments :D

(This is my own opinion about Ori. Maybe The G-Meister has other views. Sorry if I disturb the discussion.)

You can not continue to explore the game world outside and collect all kinds of stuff once you enter the final temple in the original version. You can not re-enter the Ginso tree once you escape from it. What you can do is to delete your save file and play this game again, hoping that you won't miss something this time. This is quite frustrating.

(But now in the definitive edition you can. So blocking away the player from such a great area is definitely not a good choice.)
 

The G-Meister

Giga Slime
^I'd forgotten this, but yes, this is also true.

Ori is supposed to be a Metroidvania - a 2D action adventure platformer, with many collectable upgrades hidden around the map (in hard to reach places or behind bits of scenery you can move behind). However, it frequently locks you out of either the main world when you enter a temple or the temple itself once you've completed it. While is kinda makes sense in terms of story they hide some of the upgrades within the temples. Not a good move, and even after using a guide to try to find everything I still didn't get the achievement - at which point I got bored and quit.

Also I'm not paying another £20 for the Definitive edition. Looks like it's exactly the same game :p

[Edit]: I'll add more to this later, but I'm off to school now :oops:
 

KoBeWi

Jumpkin
I'm also not a fan of permanently missable content. The game that annoyed me the most in that matter was Golden Sun: Dark Dawn. You can miss some items, Djinni or even summons, because they are either blocked later in game or are available in limited events. It's bad design if game allows you to miss something forever, unless there's a point in replaying the game, like having to choose A or B etc.

HOWEVER, that's not the case with Grindea. You will be able to get the items, but just later in game. That's perfectly fine to block or change an area if it's still possible to get the missing content. Instead of punishing players with missing items, they are instead pushed later in game. While some eq can be handy when you get it on first ocassion, it might be useless when it's available later. Still better than not getting it at all and having 99%

What worries me though is that these items are going to be obtainable by "various means". That sounds to me almost like having a sidequest for them. It wouldn't be good if this sidequest was only for these items, because players that already got them will miss the fun. So if they are going to be placed e.g. in different spots than originally, some new item should accompany them, so all players get rewarded for backtracking and exploring.

Now, items aside, there's no real reason to not seal the past, other than sentiment. Maybe some players would want to revisit the area to meet the people again, or there are good sprites you will never see again, or whatever. But do people actually care about completed areas? Do they really revisit them if they know there's nothing there they didn't get? I doubt it.
As for the ability G-Meister mentioned - you don't get one. Time warp is not an ability and it seems like rifts won't probably appear outside Tai Ming. I think they are caused by Zhamla's Crown, which is the third Artifact. I thought that you would be able to control time to raise these small plants, but as someone mentioned, this will be probably done with Spring power. So Tai Ming is the first dungeon so far that doesn't give you anything to help you progress into new areas, other than it's story. There really isn't anything you can miss there.
 

Own

Moderator
What worries me though is that these items are going to be obtainable by "various means".

I imagine they'll be purchased in town from the shady merchant for absolutely ridiculous sums of gold. Seems like the easiest way to handle it, avoiding cutting off content from people who got the treasures in the past. Perma-miss an item? Pay out the nose for it. 100k, 500k or 1 million per missed item seems fair. :p

Now, items aside, there's no real reason to not seal the past, other than sentiment.

On the other hand, being able to revisit the Kingdom of Zeal in Chrono Trigger whenever you wanted would take away from it's mystique and specialness. The only reason I'd want to visit it whenever is... well, it blows Evergrind out of the park in terms of graphics, detail, scope and animations. :p Though it's technically a dungeon.

For players actually playing the full game I doubt it'll be as big of a problem, since they'll be continuing right on to the fourth temple and the end of the game past that. They can revisit it via NG+. We're kind of stuck at the moment once we finish the temple, though the reset commands help with that.

Maybe us frontline testers could always just have a /taimingportal1, 2 and 3 command for testing out taiming whenever we want after the temple is 100% implimented? Until the game is done.

I think they are caused by Zhamla's Crown, which is the third Artifact.

I don't think that's the case. Because the monkeys are evidence that Grindea's time travel isn't a set line, time can be changed. In the present you can see monkey bones in the lab if you go there first, but after going into the past and letting them free there are monkeys everywhere.

Zhamla wouldn't have gotten his crown without us going through Puzzle World and grabbing it. It would've just remained buried. Bag does seem to recognize the crown, though, saying something like "Is that...?", but then dismisses it. So maybe it's just a replica.

Either way, Zhamla's sword is 100% an artifact. It's the dragon cave sword and the Echo of Madness sword. Not sure if it'll be the final artifact or the third artifact, though.
 
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