A change to Snowstorm Marino

[Own]

Would it be possible to make putting Marino on his ass dispell all blizzards in the room and make him take double damage while he's on the ground? It would make the fight easier for melee, giving them more room to work with and a burst damage period.

 

[Chaldo]

The double damage would make him die far too quickly, and it would ruin the fight, but I'm up for something stopping the blizzards to allow melee players to attack

 

[XxX_MLG Noob_XxX]

I used to think Marino was unbalanced for melee players, but now I think he's pretty easy. Doubling damage and removing all blizzards seems like a bit much. It would make the fight quite fast and would perhaps tip the fight in melee's favor.

A better balance would be to remove the blizzards around Marino after sitting him down. So if you force Marino to sit, then vertical/horizontal blizzards cannot spawn over him. And any blizzards currently going through him are stopped. This basically means that 2 blizzards are prevented from spawning, guaranteeing that the player will have at least a single square in which they can safely hit Marino. This way, players still have to be mindful of where they're moving. It may be beneficial to remove 3 blizzards instead of 2 (1 horizontal and 2 vertical) just to avoid a few possible jank moments. Doing so would guarantee the player 2 safe squares rather than 1.

I don't know if this solves all of Marino's "blizzard problems" for melee, but I think it handles most of them. And with a skilled melee player, it may actually solve 95-99.9% of all jankness in the fight.

 

[Own]

It would make the fight quite fast and would perhaps tip the fight in melee's favor.

If you can perfect guard his four-hit combo. That's not an easy thing to do, and one slip-up knocks you down to an A-rank for damage. The game should absolutely give huge bonuses for risky perfect guards.

 

[Chaldo]

If you can perfect guard his four-hit combo. That's not an easy thing to do, and one slip-up knocks you down to an A-rank for damage. The game should absolutely give huge bonuses for risky perfect guards.

Perfect guarding his four hit combo is easy since you can endlessly practice it in the dojo and arena, and if you still struggle, quick reflexes makes it extremely easier to do. If you still can't manage after that, you don't need to p-guard his four-hit combo because he only uses it when you're close to him, and if you stay far enough away, he will only ever dash at you which is significantly easier to p-guard.

 

[XxX_MLG Noob_XxX]

If you can perfect guard his four-hit combo. That's not an easy thing to do, and one slip-up knocks you down to an A-rank for damage. The game should absolutely give huge bonuses for risky perfect guards.

Pguarding a hardmode elite boar (pre-nerf) repeatedly is harder than Pguarding Marino's combo consistently. I guarantee you that no melee player would be able to handle Marino as is without learning to Pguard the combo (or frosty-cheesing). Simultaneously, once a melee player learns to Pguard the entire combo, they won't need all blizzards to go away while they deal x2 damage. A simple fix to the "Pguarding difficulty" is to employ quick reflexes. It's something that beginning and intermediate melee players really should employ around FF/Seasonne because melee's reliance on Pguarding picks up significantly around that time.

Additionally, guarding the first attack is easy. So as long as a player is careful to guard at least somewhat near the right times, they won't take damage. However, they will miss out on the stunning opportunity if their timing isn't good enough.

If melee doesn't get an easy OP reward for Pguarding an elite boar or elite bot, I imagine one won't come during a boss battle. That reminds me that a nerf needs to be applied to empowered autumn knights though.

The "cross-blizzard nerf" that ensures 1-2 squares of safety for the player without any damage multipliers is most fair imo. It prevents Marino from being shifted from a mage-dominating boss to a melee-dominating boss. And it protects both sides (95-99.9% of the time) from running into jank blizzard situations if they Pguard the entire combo.

 

[XxX_MLG Noob_XxX]

Perfect guarding his four hit combo is easy since you can endlessly practice it in the dojo and arena, and if you still struggle, quick reflexes makes it extremely easier to do. If you still can't manage after that, you don't need to p-guard his four-hit combo because he only uses it when you're close to him, and if you stay far enough away, he will only ever dash at you which is significantly easier to p-guard.

To be fair, Marino's combo is not a cakewalk if you aren't packing quick reflexes. It's nowhere near impossible or "unfairly difficult"...but it takes some getting used to, and the combo doesn't have an "easy Pguard spam" (Smashie) nor an "easy Pguard rhythm", so to speak. I agree that quick reflexes solves that problem though. Anyone trying to learn melee boss battles would likely have to go to that talent first. Only the most skilled players would leave it behind, and it costs 3 talent points max. Not a big deal.

Also, the best opportunity to handle Marino is when he's stunned because he's standing still. Otherwise, he will move around the screen -- chasing you, moving away from you, or using Sonic Rave. Stopping his Sonic Rave will give you a very small window for only a few attacks. It isn't viable for an S-ranked melee battle. And Marino will generally try to close the distance with his opponent after a sonic rave. The blizzards can force close distance. So playing Rave-spam won't save you. I know because I lost several runs that way. If you're melee, your best chance at winning (and doing well) is his combo.