Arcade Rework - Full Roguelite edition

Discussion in 'Suggestions & Feedback' started by IHeartPie, Nov 19, 2018.

  1. Teddy

    Teddy Developer Staff Member

    @IHeartPie @XxX_MLG Noob_XxX

    I think I see why you two are prone to conflict with each other, and I thiiink it's because you both put a ton of value into getting the last word, to the point you just can't stand it if the other has it, and it evolves into some kind of weird meta-argument.

    The value of last words is kind of "real" but only if you're pandering to the plebs, and we're not plebs, and plebs shouldn't be your consideration unless you're running for POTUS. So even if Pie gets to explain his points last in this thread, or some bow-loving peasant gets the final word in Chaldo's suggestion-gone-meme, doesn't grant their position any merits. And vice-versa.

    In my personal opinion Own had some of the strongest posts in this thread, and they were just two succinct, tactical nukes, and then he dabbed out of the topic, his work done.

    MLG, I think you should just rest assured that you are in very high regard in the community and just leaving a topic when you've said your piece won't diminish that, even if Pie were to put your character into question (which I don't feel he's doing - I just feel your arguments have derailed).

    I'm not entirely sure it was what you insinuated, but leaving the community altogether because of a clash of debate styles with one dude seems a little overkill. Maybe you should both treat each other as practice for learning when to leave topics alone (apologies for condescension)

    I'll add this: consider whom you are trying to convince. Is it us? Is it MLG? Is it Pie? Yourself? You two obviously aren't going to convince each other since you fundamentally want two different things. As for us, I've already stated our intentions very clearly. So who are you really arguing for? (Rhetorical question btw don't @ me)

    I get your frustrations and I know I'm oversimplifying social interaction, but one can always strive to exorcise negative emotions, and nowhere is that so beneficial as online (one good way to do it is to make a game and bathe in the flames for a bit until you're an unfeeling, empty shell of a programmer).
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
    XxX_MLG Noob_XxX likes this.
  2. Own

    Own Moderator

    The reason I tend to bail on topics is because I'm not necessarily arguing against the other person, but to ensure the devteam knows I'm opposed to an idea and why. There's no real value in clashing over it with paragraphs again and again when there's no indication that it might actually be added to the game.

    If it's a good idea it'll be considered on it's own merits, or it'll be used as inspiration for something else.

    "I want this" - Great.

    "I don't want this because" - Also great.

    "Maybe I could have this alternative?" - Mm-hm.

    "I don't like that either because" - Yep.

    "I'm going to reiterate what I've already said but in different ways" - Not really productive, tends to draw things out, unnecessary unless you're suggesting different ways of doing something. You don't have to convince another poster that you're right, because it's a suggestion. 90% chance you're not going to convince them your suggestion is something they would want. Not getting the last word doesn't mean you've lost some argument. It's not an argument, it's a brainstorm of ideas.

    "(Addressing someone else in the topic by name and turning it from a discussion of an idea into directly arguing with another person or arguing about arguing, my favorite kind of arguing)" - :chicken::chicken::chicken: ABANDON SHIP :chicken::chicken::chicken:
    XxX_MLG Noob_XxX and Vilya like this.
  3. At this point that isn't it for me, honestly. I didn't even enter this post intending to argue. There wasn't anything I really needed to push anyway since you confirmed that the current arcade would likely be preserved in one way or another. That's why I [attempted to] transition from defending the current arcade to generating ideas on how the other form could possibly work. I'm confident that the conflict that stirs up has little to nothing to do with getting the last word in, though the last word thing never helps for sure. Things definitely evolve into meta arguments though.

    I'd be hard pressed to simply call it a clash of debate styles. And I wouldn't cast the situation as leaving just for that. There are other reasons. But I'd rather not toss them up publicly, and I've already written like 4 pages on this. As for the apologies, none needed. I consider it a friendly reprimand.

    I think there's definitely value to be had in learning when to leave topics alone. And I'd agree that I have not mastered that skill yet. At all. Like I already said, I think other conflicts exist beyond that. But maybe there's something to learn from those aspects as well.

    I'll figure something out.

    I would @ you if I could for the memes but idk how. :(
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
  4. How very MLG like, arguing about the meta
    Teddy and XxX_MLG Noob_XxX like this.
  5. UTech

    UTech Rabby

    Seems as though the train didn't make it to the station, but I'd like to share a few thoughts anyhow from a noob perspective, so here goes.

    Last I played arcade mode was around the flying fortress, even then I struggled to plan out a run to get to that floor. However, that isn't the case anymore and there is a lot still being added. The purpose of this game is in the name, grind, so I understand I may never have the time to beat a run (much less plan one out and attempt one on any given day). Although the ideas presented by pie are very interesting, it seems to me that the issue is more burnout from him playing on the daily for YouTube. I even get burnout from just one run and don't touch my pc for a few months. The introduction of all the new things has certainly changed entirely how I perceive the mode to be played, because prior I thought it to be a super mega challenge gauntlet. Wherein it appears more as a progression over time, well, arcade of sorts. Meaning you can pick from a cabinet of gameplay and duke it out, and see more as you commit to the grind.

    Thoughts on the roguelite idea though, I think a lot of them sound cool. If there was an alternate mode accessed by an npc for fun that randomizes abilities precharged in chests or something of the like I agree that'd be a cool thing, I don't have much input other than that.

    If I were to change something in the mode to a more roguelite fashion, I would think the order in which you get to areas might be neat although ruining quests in a way if done outright to start. Getting unlucky enough to start in the pumpkin forest without anything sounds super hardcore, but idk how you would balance in earlier floors later (especially since when a game does do that, there are progressive enemy types like in rogue legacy, apart from the themed ones).

    Was a fun read, cool ideas all around. Awesome to find time to check in on here.

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