Fine Taste isn't a very useful perk.

Own

Moderator
It doesn't really scale with you throughout the game. Longer lasting potions might have some benefit to them early on when you don't have much gold to spare, but by the end of the game I imagine you can swim in potions if you feel inclined to do so.

It seems like it ought to be longer lasting + effect. So they last 10% longer and give +2-5%(?) more of a boost.
 

Cheynas

Rabby
Maybe give it a 'stacking' kind of effect?

Meaning you can drink (stack) another of the same potion, to get 10% longer lasting, and +2% increased effect.
One more drink (stack) per level.
 

GarlicJelly

Friendly Moderator (Formerly known as GoodStuff)
Since I haven't played the last patch I guess I shouldn't open my mouth but maybe this could be more useful to people that doesn't farm (speedrunners)? I mean if you stop to farm every single enemy for 7 hours then yeah, why would money be a problem but if you're playing through the whole game without farming that much then maybe it becomes more useful? For a first time experience of the story then this might feel more valid than to us beta testers as we only play small fragments of the game at a time.
 

Own

Moderator
I have to assume there are far, far more useful perks available right at the moment that would be more appealing to speedrunners than +Potion Timelength.
 

GarlicJelly

Friendly Moderator (Formerly known as GoodStuff)
You might be right. As I said I haven't played the latest patch so I don't know what perks there are (and I'm to lazy to read up on them). I'm just saying that this might change in the future as the game gets longer. Speedrunners might end up with a very low level and some shitty weapons so potions might actually be really useful and money is also a problem as they will want to buy equipment instead of temporary boosts. Picking up close by potions in chests might in the long run lower your time. I just feel that stuff like this should get more attention towards the end of the development as it's more of a tweak than a game breaking thing. I'm sure you feel the same way so I'm gonna stop ranting as it feels pointless to fight over such a small thing. :p
 

Own

Moderator
I always dislike it when people protest against suggestions over the reasoning that 'It's not important right now'...
 

MrChocodemon

Handsome Moderator
Own is right. This skill should receive an overhaul at some point as it isn't very useful.
But GoodStuff, even though his arguing was not his best, has a point; It's not (that) important right now.

Potions right now, aren't what i would call balanced/sophisticated.
Potions lack in diversity, creativity and aren't very well defined.

I mean how big is the boost you get from a potion? Is the bonus a set number, like +10 dmg or is it +5% or is it a mix?
Do potions stack in any way or does drinking another potion just reset the timer?

So why is GoodStuff kinda right? Because potions need a little more work than just fixing this one perk.
Why is Own right? Because fixing things now helps the game get the shape and playability it aims to have.

Fine Taste needs a remodeling.
Own suggested a longer duration (10%) + bigger boost (2-5%) given through the perk.
Cheynas suggested a stacking of sipped potion in general, which could be tied to Fine Taste as the bonus given to the stack could be influenced by the perk.
MrChocodemon suggests that the duration stacks naturally by drinking more potions and the boost is given by the perk.
 

Teddy

Developer
Staff member
I agree that the perk doesn't scale as well as many other perks, and this should be addressed. It's basically a money saving perk. Quite boring!

Just a flat increase to the potion effect would work, I think, but the other ideas (like stacking) sounds interesting as well. Having stacking would run the risk of making it a very expensive perk, though, haha... :D

I also like the duration stacking Chocodemon suggests. It would make it a bit more streamlined to use potions.
 

GarlicJelly

Friendly Moderator (Formerly known as GoodStuff)
I always dislike it when people protest against suggestions over the reasoning that 'It's not important right now'...
I'll stop doing this then. If it's a weak argument it's not worth using.
 

Cheynas

Rabby
MrChocodemon suggests that the duration stacks naturally by drinking more potions and the boost is given by the perk.

I don't mind that stacking, though what prevents someone from buying and drinking 200 potions to 'never' have to worry about the timer on them?

I suggest that the duration increases less and less per stacked drink, which means that no matter what you do you will loose the entire stack eventually... however each drink will give the Fine Taste boost even if they don't increase the duration anymore.

Also means that you have an option between 'longer lasting' smaller buffs by micromanaging drinking when it runs out, or chug a ton of drinks right before a boss battle to buff you up a ton (with the Fine Taste perk).
 

Own

Moderator
The idea that you can just chug a ton of potions to make the bonus spiral out of control seems like an odd one. Difficulty on a boss? Throw all your gold at potions and kill it in one hit.
 

GarlicJelly

Friendly Moderator (Formerly known as GoodStuff)
MrChocodemon suggests that the duration stacks naturally by drinking more potions and the boost is given by the perk.

So the % stat boost is increased by the perk level and the duration is increased by the number of potions you've used? That seems like a good idea. This would prevent insane damage stacking and with an exponentially decreasing algorithm for the duration stacking.
 

MrChocodemon

Handsome Moderator
I don't mind that stacking, though what prevents someone from buying and drinking 200 potions to 'never' have to worry about the timer on them?
Easy! Reset the Counter on Death, or when you start the game new.
You could also have a cap. Maybe the max. timer for a buff can be 10 minutes and each potion gives just the Fine Taste Bonus of time. Or something like that.

The idea that you can just chug a ton of potions to make the bonus spiral out of control seems like an odd one. Difficulty on a boss? Throw all your gold at potions and kill it in one hit.

I think you missunderstood. Cheynas and Me are talking about the buff duration and not the stat bonus. Sorry if that wasn't totally clear. I suggested that drinking 200 Potions gives you duration*200 while the stat bonus stays the same and Cheynas had doubts about people running around with 20 hour buffs for every potion.

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The normal potion gives +10% on the stat for 60 seconds.
Fine Taste raises the potion duration by 10%, so each Level gives +6 seconds.


What if we reduce standard duration of potions to 30 seconds and naturally have no stackability.
What if Fine Taste enables stacking and:
Each Level could give +(4, 8, 12, 16, 20) seconds stacking effect. So even on Level 5 you never get the full 30 seconds of the first potion.
A Small (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)% boost which will be added to the initial 10% so the perk makes potion just a little better.
And the duration cap gets raised by 54 seconds per level. On the maximum level you can have a 30s+(54s*5) =300s=5min stack

On a strength potion with a level 5 Fine Taste perk, i would get +15%dmg for 30 seconds and would be able to drink additional potions for +20 seconds of duration to a maximum of 5 minutes. (Needs 14 additional potions if you chug them super fast)
When you reduce the time bonus given to 3 per level (3, 6, 9, 12, 15), you'd need around 18 potions to get a 5 minute buff.
--> This would lead to stacking to be unlockable through this perk and you can stack up to five minutes, and also a very small stat boost boost making the potions even more useful.

Or Stacking is possible as a default and the normal cap is 60 seconds, where additional potions give 3 seconds of stacked effect and every perk level gives 3 extra seconds
(6, 9, 12, 15, 18) and the cap is just raised by 48seconds per level
60s+(48s*5) =300s=5min stack
--> This would lead to a little duration stacking which is always possible but with the perk you can stack up to five minutes, get better stacking per potion ratio, and also a very small stat boost boost making the potions even more useful.
 
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