Kheb
Green Slime
In this thread I'd like to discuss the matters of what is causing the fundamental and mechanical problems caster builds face. Also I'd like to suggest some reworking of abilities and enhancement of the options caster builds have.
First of all, in my opinion what is lacking mechanically is momentum.
Melee builds can reach very high momentum by Dash-canceling and from Dodging Strike. You play fast, you kill fast. Caster builds lack this good option cover both safety and damage. A caster should always be moving to not get hit . Running away is the first mechanical problem caster face due to them not being able to deal any damage while spacing correctly to avoid damage or suffer nasty movement speed penalties. Once a caster found a safe spot to attack he needs to charge a spell, the next mechanical problem. Now you could charge a spell for only one frame, but due to the already very low momentum it's not likely to be so precise and quick. Every frame you stand still enemies get closer and you waste time. Now for most spells the next problem is targeting. Again, this costs a lot of time or at least any momentum you've got since you waste frames doing nothing. Next problem some spells, like meteor, face is the projectile speed. After all the momentum killing from the last things I stated, the chance of the mob dodging the spell is way too high. if the mob moves diagonally you'd be almost guaranteed a miss.
So how to fix this? I don't think destroying melee to balance would be the right thing to do. Melee feels quick, strong, solid and fun. Also this the spell casting system is new, fun and very interesting so no need to destroy that either.
First, I think casters are badly in need for a viable movement option that benefits them on both safety and momentum.
My Suggestion is a skill like Teleport, with Teleport you can move safely to position yourself and by cancelling enhancing Casting/Movement Speed, EP regen, or like Dash' increased base charge. Piercing Dash needs you to equip a one handed weapon which would limit the casters option due to weapon type choice (like no cool big staffs) which would not fit a casting class in any game in my opinion.
Second, I think that casters are badly harmed by the movement speed penalties.
My Suggestion is not to remove this penalty but to enhance the skill book with a quick, cheap, decent damage dealing, small aoe, spammable, Magic Missile. Though, there is Fireball available that fits a typical caster, though due to it's high increasing cost it's not suitable for the amount of EP there is to spent. Either a rework on Fireball or a new skill needs to be added to fix this problem while preserving game mechanics. Either way there needs to be a missile that travels very fast, deals sufficient damage on possibly some more enemies, very low casting time (preferably only one frame) and has a low cost. This can also be done in way like Static Touch, though this one is ranged.
Third, due to not being able to attack with missile spells diagonally while monsters are able to dodge them diagonally the caster faces the problem of targeting.
My Suggestion is to give spells an auto-target function, targeting closest enemy first, it could be an option in the menu, or a homing function to make it easier to hit your enemies, spells like Meteor badly need this since it misses so easily. Another option could be to increase projectile speed which might look bad however will enhance momentum in return.
Further suggestions to improve building viability for M.Att users.
This! This would enhance gameplay so much, increasing momentum for casters while also preserving precious EP and spammable options to maintain momentum after you've bailed out.
Also in WoW, where caster also suffer from mechanical problems like casting time, casters are compensated with Insta-Cast Spells, Auto Focus, Homing missile, damage, and procs to cast spells for free instantly.
Might be an idea to create (craftable) staffs that have a special effects that has the idea from Teylor and are able to proc a level 1 free fireball that scales 50% M.Att (Call it the The Summer Dragon Staff xD) or something like that.
I think that M.Att users could use spells from the Support Spells. Think about a small AoE, low damage dealing spell that heals allies that also stand in range, this promotes team play in a fun way as well as making Arcade mode more fun for people that do like to think of team builds !
Another suggestion that might work out and is a lot easier for our programmers is to decrease casting time and EP cost of higher ranked spells. Since highest charge you're most likely to get is bronze. The reason why bronze is the most viable is because all the trade-offs you make by charging up (killing momentum, EP and movement options) and is not promoting to use the charge system of this game.
To improve options for item choice I'd suggest a Talent that improves EP Regen, scaling with M.Att. Something like 'Inner Focus'. Increase EP Regen by 2% (+2% per talent level) for every point of M.att, max 5 levels. Casting Speeds needs a buff too so 'Mental Agility' Increase Casting speed by 2% (+2% per talent level) for every point of M.att, max 5 levels. Combining these two would work out as well I guess. This way you can focus on M.Att in your item build instead of trading a lot of damage for EP Regen and Casting Speed.
I might add more on this post in the future as well as fixing some writting errors.
tldr; Destroying Melee or Increasing Damage of spells is not going to work.
Cheers,
Kheb.
First of all, in my opinion what is lacking mechanically is momentum.
Melee builds can reach very high momentum by Dash-canceling and from Dodging Strike. You play fast, you kill fast. Caster builds lack this good option cover both safety and damage. A caster should always be moving to not get hit . Running away is the first mechanical problem caster face due to them not being able to deal any damage while spacing correctly to avoid damage or suffer nasty movement speed penalties. Once a caster found a safe spot to attack he needs to charge a spell, the next mechanical problem. Now you could charge a spell for only one frame, but due to the already very low momentum it's not likely to be so precise and quick. Every frame you stand still enemies get closer and you waste time. Now for most spells the next problem is targeting. Again, this costs a lot of time or at least any momentum you've got since you waste frames doing nothing. Next problem some spells, like meteor, face is the projectile speed. After all the momentum killing from the last things I stated, the chance of the mob dodging the spell is way too high. if the mob moves diagonally you'd be almost guaranteed a miss.
So how to fix this? I don't think destroying melee to balance would be the right thing to do. Melee feels quick, strong, solid and fun. Also this the spell casting system is new, fun and very interesting so no need to destroy that either.
First, I think casters are badly in need for a viable movement option that benefits them on both safety and momentum.
My Suggestion is a skill like Teleport, with Teleport you can move safely to position yourself and by cancelling enhancing Casting/Movement Speed, EP regen, or like Dash' increased base charge. Piercing Dash needs you to equip a one handed weapon which would limit the casters option due to weapon type choice (like no cool big staffs) which would not fit a casting class in any game in my opinion.
Second, I think that casters are badly harmed by the movement speed penalties.
My Suggestion is not to remove this penalty but to enhance the skill book with a quick, cheap, decent damage dealing, small aoe, spammable, Magic Missile. Though, there is Fireball available that fits a typical caster, though due to it's high increasing cost it's not suitable for the amount of EP there is to spent. Either a rework on Fireball or a new skill needs to be added to fix this problem while preserving game mechanics. Either way there needs to be a missile that travels very fast, deals sufficient damage on possibly some more enemies, very low casting time (preferably only one frame) and has a low cost. This can also be done in way like Static Touch, though this one is ranged.
Third, due to not being able to attack with missile spells diagonally while monsters are able to dodge them diagonally the caster faces the problem of targeting.
My Suggestion is to give spells an auto-target function, targeting closest enemy first, it could be an option in the menu, or a homing function to make it easier to hit your enemies, spells like Meteor badly need this since it misses so easily. Another option could be to increase projectile speed which might look bad however will enhance momentum in return.
Further suggestions to improve building viability for M.Att users.
- Mid-Range Attack for Magic Weapons: This would be less complicated then implementing endurance. When using a staff/wand, you can shoot little magic projectile from it when using a normal attack. The damage is based on your MATK (instead ATK) and it pierces enemies. The drawbacks are, that it has no (or close to no) knockback and the attack speed is on par with two-handed sword. Like the name suggests, it only has mid-range. I would say double, maybe tripled range from two-handed sword. This way, you still have to be quite close in order to hit your enemy, but you're out of the enemies melee range at least..
This! This would enhance gameplay so much, increasing momentum for casters while also preserving precious EP and spammable options to maintain momentum after you've bailed out.
Also in WoW, where caster also suffer from mechanical problems like casting time, casters are compensated with Insta-Cast Spells, Auto Focus, Homing missile, damage, and procs to cast spells for free instantly.
Might be an idea to create (craftable) staffs that have a special effects that has the idea from Teylor and are able to proc a level 1 free fireball that scales 50% M.Att (Call it the The Summer Dragon Staff xD) or something like that.
I think that M.Att users could use spells from the Support Spells. Think about a small AoE, low damage dealing spell that heals allies that also stand in range, this promotes team play in a fun way as well as making Arcade mode more fun for people that do like to think of team builds !
Another suggestion that might work out and is a lot easier for our programmers is to decrease casting time and EP cost of higher ranked spells. Since highest charge you're most likely to get is bronze. The reason why bronze is the most viable is because all the trade-offs you make by charging up (killing momentum, EP and movement options) and is not promoting to use the charge system of this game.
To improve options for item choice I'd suggest a Talent that improves EP Regen, scaling with M.Att. Something like 'Inner Focus'. Increase EP Regen by 2% (+2% per talent level) for every point of M.att, max 5 levels. Casting Speeds needs a buff too so 'Mental Agility' Increase Casting speed by 2% (+2% per talent level) for every point of M.att, max 5 levels. Combining these two would work out as well I guess. This way you can focus on M.Att in your item build instead of trading a lot of damage for EP Regen and Casting Speed.
I might add more on this post in the future as well as fixing some writting errors.
tldr; Destroying Melee or Increasing Damage of spells is not going to work.
Disclaimer: I am aware that not everything is as horrible as you might think I say, however with the current discussions about balancing Magic I think it's important to also discuss the mechanical aspects of the game since I think that they greatly influence the game.
Cheers,
Kheb.
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