Some Suggestions!

[dmbrandon]

Firstly, I'm dmbrandon! Professional Smite Commentator, former pro in multiple games, and (self recognized) authority on game mechanics! (see: http://secretsofgrindea.com/forum/index.php?threads/highest-dps-in-current-build.4254/ )

I have come across a few things I would like to mention about balance and fluidity of the game and it's pretty straight forward so I'll jump right in!!

<3

1. The video I linked above does scream for a nerf, but please don't be afraid to allow a LOT of cancels. Attack animation cancels and such are what keep games afloat for years to come. Think about timeless loves like Super Smash Bros. Melee, Halo 2, Super Mario 64... These beloved games all have animation cancels in the games to allow for faster movement and a ton of mechanical reward for practiced players. Speed runners and such love things like this. You might hit some hiccups, don't don't be afraid of it!!!

2. Casting time on spells is fine, but the movement isn't. I understand there are talents for it, but honestly, movement is fun! Something Smite does amazingly (And perhaps why Frost Mage was OP in WoW for 6 years) is a great amount of movement for mages. Right now, I feel bogged down by spells, making a super fast fluid melee class seem like the only option. Mages are limited in movement to the point where it plays as if I'm underwater. Perhaps it's design inherent, and I'm pleading to deaf ears, but cut movement by 15% MAX for most skills. Test it, see how people feel. Worst case, revert and try something else!

3. This game is fucking awesome and you're geniuses. You guys have a fucking marvel of a game here and I would love to see it shine! The beta is beyond amazing, and the early coop is a blessing. I've had a ton of fun except grinding for these helmets zzzz XD

Thanks for reading, guys! If I can be of any help, please hit me up! I adore this game!

--dmbrandon

 

[Teddy]

Hey dude! We've been watching some of your (and Fats') streams/VODs, and we're loving them! I've never seen a bunch of streamers so dedicated to figuring out how to break the game ;D

Also, mad collector cred for staying 10 full minutes in the first zone of the first area

1) Anyhow, yes, after seeing your video of charge cancelling I... think I agree that it should be nerfed (I love these kinds of exploits so being a programmer is hard for me ;( ). The most obvious nerf, I think, would be to make the startup casting animation no longer be attack cancelable. That would add about 3-5 extra frames (depending on spell), which would make this very similar to shield canceling.

2) Nothing said on these forums fall unto deaf ears, don't worry about that! Honestly, much of the quality of the game can be attributed to the awesome people on these forums really going all out with finding bugs and coming with good feedback and suggestions!

On topic, I do think you might be underestimating mages a bit based on your own preferences for maxing DPS and having high mobility. It's much, much safer to use (ranged) magic, and I don't know if making it even more safe is moving things in the right direction. That being said, when all skills are in place it's very possible we'll be doing some major changes - perhaps frost magey ones! We've done major overhauls of systems in the pasts, and if necessary we'll do more of those

A change that definitely is coming and will affect mages, is a shift of the DEF stat into emphasizing armor more, and then having an armor type which gives little or no DEF but a bunch of MATK, but yeah, that doesn't really address your issue with them.

Just out of curiousity: have you tried any Arcade Mode? That place is really good for seeing the inherent power of non-powerfarmed builds!

3) Thanks! Your streaming and tweeting about it has definitely made a ton of new people aware of the game, so you've already helped us a ton in that regard! <3

 

[Own]

The reason that melee is so broken in Story Mode is, I believe, the fact that you don't care about your HP in Story Mode. It's only really relevant in boss battles where you get no healing. You charge in, get beaten on all sides, slaughter everything and guzzle down whatever red orbs drop. Why should I bother with meteors, ice spikes or plants when I can Spin2Win and tank hundreds of HP of damage?

In Arcade Mode, magic is slower but it's also so much safer. Every single point of HP is precious and if you can't tango with enemies without taking a punch, melee is scary. I only make Spin2Win look easy in Arcade because I know every enemy's attack pattern, and know when is safest to move in for an attack (at least up to Winterlands ). Especially on bosses.

I still don't know of a way to make Story Mode less 'safe', though. There's no penalty for death beyond losing some time when grinding, as you have to wait for your enemy respawn rate to build back up. Maybe you do away with Health Orbs entirely, and just regenerate health over time when out of combat for a while? Or you're limited to a maximum of 1 health orb spawning every minute? Or maybe they only get instantly healed at teleport / healing plates at the start of dungeons? That would make me backtrack in the Flying Fortress for a heal before trying to drive deeper, maybe... or... maybe not, death is a full heal.

You should be less afraid of letting people die or reducing their ability to regain health in Story Mode when there's no reason to fear death. At least, until some sort of penalty is added.

 

[GarlicJelly]

I still don't know of a way to make Story Mode less 'safe', though. There's no penalty for death beyond losing some time when grinding, as you have to wait for your enemy respawn rate to build back up. Maybe you do away with Health Orbs entirely, and just regenerate health over time when out of combat for a while? Or you're limited to a maximum of 1 health orb spawning every minute? Or maybe they only get instantly healed at teleport / healing plates at the start of dungeons? That would make me backtrack in the Flying Fortress for a heal before trying to drive deeper, maybe... or... maybe not, death is a full heal.

You should be less afraid of letting people die or reducing their ability to regain health in Story Mode when there's no reason to fear death. At least, until some sort of penalty is added.

You need a hardcore mode where once you die you have to restart. Otherwise there is no point in being careful. You could also remove health orbs entirely from Story Mode so that there is no healing while in combat. That would also "force" players to head back to heal before going deeper into a Temple.

I think melee will always be stonger in Story Mode since once you master the shield you'll never have to even think about using a ranged attack.

 

[Own]

Honestly, I've always been in love with the idea of a difficulty where Teleport Plates double as Save Plates. Walk over them, game auto-saves. You die? All progress since the last time you walked over a plate is gone. Also, you can't teleport unless walking over a teleport plate. Good luck.

I think Teddy said something like that might be left for when the game is 100% done, though.

 

[KoBeWi]

For healing, Terraria has good system as alternative to orbs. HP regenerates over time, but speeds up if not taking damage. When you take damage, regeneration stops for a second and then slowly increases. Players would either avoid damage to regain health or just wait between battles. But balancing proper regen speed would be difficult.

 

[dmbrandon]

Hey dude! We've been watching some of your (and Fats') streams/VODs, and we're loving them! I've never seen a bunch of streamers so dedicated to figuring out how to break the game ;D

Also, mad collector cred for staying 10 full minutes in the first zone of the first area

1) Anyhow, yes, after seeing your video of charge cancelling I... think I agree that it should be nerfed (I love these kinds of exploits so being a programmer is hard for me ;( ). The most obvious nerf, I think, would be to make the startup casting animation no longer be attack cancelable. That would add about 3-5 extra frames (depending on spell), which would make this very similar to shield canceling.

2) Nothing said on these forums fall unto deaf ears, don't worry about that! Honestly, much of the quality of the game can be attributed to the awesome people on these forums really going all out with finding bugs and coming with good feedback and suggestions!

On topic, I do think you might be underestimating mages a bit based on your own preferences for maxing DPS and having high mobility. It's much, much safer to use (ranged) magic, and I don't know if making it even more safe is moving things in the right direction. That being said, when all skills are in place it's very possible we'll be doing some major changes - perhaps frost magey ones! We've done major overhauls of systems in the pasts, and if necessary we'll do more of those

A change that definitely is coming and will affect mages, is a shift of the DEF stat into emphasizing armor more, and then having an armor type which gives little or no DEF but a bunch of MATK, but yeah, that doesn't really address your issue with them.

Just out of curiousity: have you tried any Arcade Mode? That place is really good for seeing the inherent power of non-powerfarmed builds!

3) Thanks! Your streaming and tweeting about it has definitely made a ton of new people aware of the game, so you've already helped us a ton in that regard! <3

We're idiots like that. We saw EXP going up really fast and we're like... "Fuck it, grind it out" LOL

1. I was thinking perhaps just making sure the EP is used on frame 1? This way, you can waste 60 ep in a quick drop to cancel 4 hits to a bit of burst? Would require clawing a controller to really get done, and for only a few hits. Risk vs reward in a sense?

2. You're probably right. I might very well be underestimating it's damage and utility, I'm just saying compare to 1h it's underwhelming, and I find it a bit slow for my liking. Movement and fluidity to me have always been the key to successful gameplay, and I couldn't see myself playing mage. Then again, few games have ever made me want to.

I haven't done arcade mode. Roguelikes aren't my type of game a lot of the time. Prefer stat gaining and careful tweeking over a long period. Fats says it's sick though, so I might give it a shot soon!

3. Happy to, definitely! Triple A games are pissing me off more than ever. And with sick indie titles like this, Lisa and Titan Souls, companies like EA should receive fines for allowing people to play their expensive unpolished messes.

 

[GarlicJelly]

We're idiots like that. We saw EXP going up really fast and we're like... "Fuck it, grind it out" LOL

I'm not the only one. *Eyes fills up with tears* T_T

 

[fats]

magic... is... so bad in story.....
I have all the best mage gear and i'm still not pumping out the rediculous amount of dps im seeing from just auto attacks in 1handers :< It makes me sad but i'll keep fighting the good fight. I'd be happy to help with magic stuff if you'd let me as well!

 

[Teddy]

magic... is... so bad in story.....
I have all the best mage gear and i'm still not pumping out the rediculous amount of dps im seeing from just auto attacks in 1handers :< It makes me sad but i'll keep fighting the good fight. I'd be happy to help with magic stuff if you'd let me as well!

Keep strong for all the powergamer mages out there!

The lack of risky all-in itemization for mages is probably part of the cause. Casting spells next to Diem's mad AA-cancel barrage doesn't help either, I imagine ;D

I hope that with some small tweaks to scaling and some new mage items, we could make it so a flamethrower/cloud build (for example) would be as viable DPS-wise as a 1h build.

Also on our agenda is improving hybrid builds for those wanting to play as battle mages!