[Suggestion] Implement A Card For Health Pickup

[mr. nails]

Much like that of the green slimes card, but instead of coins it would be for health. Picking up health from a distance would be nice. Seems sometimes I have to walk over health a few times before it allows me to pick it up. : /

 

[Own]

Downsides:

Stealing HP your friends might need in multiplayer.
Deactivating talents that require you to be below a certain amount of HP.

 

[mr. nails]

Then the devs could add in filters so such things wouldn't happen if you so choose.

It's meant to make things easier... not harder.

 

[GarlicJelly]

I don't think that you should add something like this, it kind of ruins the whole point of having health orbs. The thing with health orbs is that you might not always be able to get them because the enemies are standing ontop of them so you have to play smart when a health orb drops. If you're playing a melee character you wouldn't have to worry about a health orb dropping because if you've just moved a little from where it dropped then it will be picked up without you even stopping to fight. Having to make a decision of stopping to fight to pick up the health orb or to keep on going and pick it up later is one of those things that makes combat as a melee character more interesting. It's not always risky to go for a health orb but sometimes when it is, the feeling of sucessfully picking one up while at 1 HP with a lot of enemies hunting you is more rewarding than finding the last item you've tried to farm for 9 hours.

What I'm saying is that I don't think you shouldn't change the way we can pick up health orbs because the current way adds depth and decisions to a fight that the increased pickup radius would take away.

 

[mr. nails]

Ok, point taken. Then IMO the hit detection needs to be reevaluated then. This isn't a schmup where you need to pin point center mass in order to hit something. If I'm touching it then I'm touching it. I hate having to circle around the health orbs just to hit the correct pixel so I can finally pick them up.

 

[GarlicJelly]

Ok, point taken. Then IMO the hit detection needs to be reevaluated then. This isn't a schmup where you need to pin point center mass in order to hit something. If I'm touching it then I'm touching it. I hate having to circle around the health orbs just to hit the correct pixel so I can finally pick them up.

I don't know. I think the hitbox is as big as the shadow of it so yeah the hitbox is not that big but if you want the hitbox to be bigger then I think that the whole orb should be bigger which isn't really a bad idea since it is pretty small and looks like it wouldn't heal much but it heals about 22% of your Max HP so that's quite a lot actually.

 

[MrChocodemon]

But there should be a change with HOs(health orbs) nonetheless.
Right now there is one big problem with HOs that consists of many smaller changes that need to be made.
- The amount of HOs at the same time is limited.
- HOs are dropped where the enemy died

Those are both valid mechanics. Who'd want 1000 HOs on screen which spawn all over the place.
But,
but,
butt
On longer farming sessions i happens (rare, like in 4 times in nearly 60 hours playtime) that the HOs dropped somewhere i couldn't go.
And no new HOs would spawn until you collect the ones already there.


This picture is more of an example where they could land during battle.

It's pretty rare but it is annyoing if you have to restart your farming session just because the HO got stuck on a treestump

 

[GarlicJelly]

But there should be a change with HOs(health orbs) nonetheless.
Right now there is one big problem with HOs that consists of many smaller changes that need to be made.
- The amount of HOs at the same time is limited.
- HOs are dropped where the enemy died

Those are both valid mechanics. Who'd want 1000 HOs on screen which spawn all over the place.
But,
but,
butt
On longer farming sessions i happens (rare, like in 4 times in nearly 60 hours playtime) that the HOs dropped somewhere i couldn't go.
And no new HOs would spawn until you collect the ones already there.

View attachment 393
This picture is more of an example where they could land during battle.

It's pretty rare but it is annyoing if you have to restart your farming session just because the HO got stuck on a treestump

Hahah, I've never had that happening to me and I've spent quite some time in the game. XD I guess that could be solved if the health orbs had a bigger pickup radius (just a little bit bigger) so that they can't get stuck on terrain.

 

[CrazyBoy.2014]

I wouldn't mind if anything that drops behind any trees, big rocks (or behind any other unmovable object in the scenario), would glow or have any other type of behavior that would mean "HEY YOU, I'm here for you to pick me up" thing lol

if not changing the "hidden item", why not like a small yellow animated arrow gif) appearing close to that item and pointing to its location.

this is specially only for the health orbs lol, real hidden treasures should stay hidden, the other items have that slime card effect to get them.

 

[Buffalo Bell]

I think the normal pickup radius should just be increased. Currently it feels awkward to pick up health orbs, even as melee.

@GoodStuff
I think even if you doubled the current health orb pick up radius there would still be the melee vs ranged disparity that you are talking about. A ranged character would still have to walk over to where the enemies are to pick up the orb. The current radius just makes it awkward for everyone. Also I think even if orbs gravitated towards you no matter where they were on the screen it would not "ruin the point of health orbs". I'd say the primary purpose of health orbs is to provide sustain in long fights (arena or farming situations mostly), I think any other purpose is secondary. Melee already has other clear advantages over ranged like not needing to use ammo (EP/arrows) for attacks and doing more damage.

 

[MrChocodemon]

But what if you play multiplayer story mode? Which player gets the health? The one that's closer or the one with less health?

I wouldn't mind if anything that drops behind any trees, big rocks (or behind any other unmovable object in the scenario), would glow or have any other type of behavior that would mean "HEY YOU, I'm here for you to pick me up" thing lol

I'd support that. But just for special things like health drops and items that get dropped. Not money or regular loot.

 

[GarlicJelly]

I think the normal pickup radius should just be increased. Currently it feels awkward to pick up health orbs, even as melee.

@GoodStuff
I think even if you doubled the current health orb pick up radius there would still be the melee vs ranged disparity that you are talking about. A ranged character would still have to walk over to where the enemies are to pick up the orb. The current radius just makes it awkward for everyone. Also I think even if orbs gravitated towards you no matter where they were on the screen it would not "ruin the point of health orbs". I'd say the primary purpose of health orbs is to provide sustain in long fights (arena or farming situations mostly), I think any other purpose is secondary. Melee already has other clear advantages over ranged like not needing to use ammo (EP/arrows) for attacks and doing more damage.

To double the current health orb pickup radius doesn't sound that bad to me. What I was afraid of was a radius more like the slime card pick up radius that would make picking up health orbs so easy that you wouldn't even have to try. I'm not that concerned about the difference for melee vs ranged characters when it comes to picking up health orbs since as a ranged character you wouldn't take much damage anyways and if a health orb dropped you could still kill the enemies from a safe distance before going over there so IMO it doesn't change much for a ranged character.

"Also I think even if orbs gravitated towards you no matter where they were on the screen it would not "ruin the point of health orbs"."
But if you wanted the players to get healed every now and then to help them sustain why not just have a chance of regaining health after killing an enemy? So instead of running over to pick something up the player would just get healed straight away without any delay after killing an enemy. The point I'm talking about with the health orbs is that there are so many different ways you could have added health regain so if you don't want the player to make the decision to run in right into the enemies to pick up his health then you wouldn't add that in the first place.

The "clear advantage" for melee is just because the devs didn't want the ranged spells to be OP and since they already think that being ranged is a fairly big advantage already they put low damage and fairly high EP costs on the spells. Being ranged right now sucks because the melee characters can deal sooo much more damage than a spell user while when the game is finished and everything is balanced that gap probably will not be as big. While melee has the advantage of good sustained damage they also have to worry about getting swarmed and they have plenty more attacks from enemies to worry about than any ranged character build. Just by looking at Arcade Mode you can tell that even if the ranged damage sucks people can still make it to the top floors with only Cloud Strike and Insect Swarm because these spells allow the player to stay out of harms way in all situations. To reach floor 5 or 6 with Shadow Clone is super hard and you have to be really skilled to even make it that far. Just because the ranged characters fights take longer doesn't mean that they take more damage. If you made it safer for a melee character to pick up health orbs then you would reduce the risk of being a melee character which would tip the scale in favour of melee characters even more.

TLDR; Making the hitbox for health orbs a little bit bigger = no big deal.

 

[Cheeseitup]

I think the HO pickup range should be increased, but only just a few pixels so it's less awkward for those who have problems. For actual gravitation from a distance, it should be a card, although GoodStuff brings up a good point about balance that I'm too lazy to read.
(Disregard all ahead) Perhaps they could add something that lets you collect or pull HOs (and maybe items) using projectiles or buddies, to give ranged players a better time (although that may not be what he meant at all).

 

[GarlicJelly]

I think the HO pickup range should be increased, but only just a few pixels so it's less awkward for those who have problems. For actual gravitation from a distance, it should be a card, although GoodStuff brings up a good point about balance that I'm too lazy to read. Perhaps they could add something that lets you collect or pull HOs (and maybe items) using projectiles or buddies, to give ranged players a better time (although that may not be what he meant at all).

What I was saying is that ranged players already has an easier time in fights because they don't have to be close to enemies so they take less damage. Since they take less damage and have the advantage of being ranged they don't need more help with picking up health orbs.

 

[Cheeseitup]

What I was saying is that ranged players already has an easier time in fights because they don't have to be close to enemies so they take less damage. Since they take less damage and have the advantage of being ranged they don't need more help with picking up health orbs.

Oh, just took the time to actually read it.
I just mean like an extra 5-10 pixels for the sake of convenience, so you still have to go pretty much where the enemy died, but you don't have to worry about missing it (I've actually done that a lot). Disregard the part about the ranged advantage.