[Gameplay] Some Arcade items aren't removed from item pool on drop / fishing item pool.

[Own]

I'm not sure if this is two different bugs, or two bugs caused by the same problem.

1. Some items in Arcade Mode drop only once, no matter what. I've never gotten two attack rings, two crowns, two gloves or two pairs of boots, for example. However, the Pink Shirt always winds up being an item I get 2-3 times throughout some runs in Arcade Mode. Additionally, I have two Ruby Rods and two Morning Stars. I thought the Arcade Item Pool meant that you couldn't get more than one of an item? If so, why can't I get two attack rings?

2. Items fished in the arcade aren't removed from the item pool. Often I can get 2 Blue Wands of 2 Squire swords from the same fishing pool, or I'll find something I got when fishing off of a boss or in a chest.

 

[GarlicJelly]

I'm not sure if this is two different bugs, or two bugs caused by the same problem.

1. Some items in Arcade Mode drop only once, no matter what. I've never gotten two attack rings, two crowns, two gloves or two pairs of boots, for example. However, the Pink Shirt always winds up being an item I get 2-3 times throughout some runs in Arcade Mode. Additionally, I have two Ruby Rods and two Morning Stars. I thought the Arcade Item Pool meant that you couldn't get more than one of an item? If so, why can't I get two attack rings?

2. Items fished in the arcade aren't removed from the item pool. Often I can get 2 Blue Wands of 2 Squire swords from the same fishing pool, or I'll find something I got when fishing off of a boss or in a chest.

I don't know how the system works but could it be that there are items that are more common in the drop pool? I mean the items you seem to find many of are the"lower tier" items so they would have a higher drop chance and thus you recieve more of them than let's say a crown which is marked as a rare drop and the chances of recieveing two in a run is then less likely? I don't have anything as a basis for these guesses so you might be right that there is a bug happening.

 

[Own]

Okay, I got the Magic Glasses from the Zoo bossfight, then I got them immediately again in the next level from a Challenge Room.

But on the other hand, I have never, ever gotten two of the same ring, not one in however many runs I've had. Or two tier 2 1-handed or 2-handed weapons, unless I used a perk to start with one. Or anything in the floor 1-2 chests, come to think of it.

Can I get confirmation on whether or not there's actually an item pool that items are filtered out of? Because it's weird seeing some items repeat constantly (Pink Sweater, Magic Glasses) and others never do it.

 

[Teddy]

There is an item pool, but the filtering has only been working semi-well (I've fixed that in the coming patch, incidentally!)

New items are added to two different pools (normal and rare) each floor, while also removing the oldest items from them both. Items already discovered are not added to the lists.

The hole in the system was that some items get "demoted" from the rare list to the normal list between certain floors, which made it possible for one item to exist in both lists at the same time, thus circumventing the "don't add discovered items to the pools"-rule.

 

[Own]

So the reason that I can potentially never receive an Attack, AttackSpeed or MagicRing in a run is due to the fact that past floor 2 or floor 4, they simply get weeded out of the item pool?

I... would be immensely happy if they persisted until found, since you can't buy them and they're overwhelmingly useful compared to socks or sandals.

Same goes for Carrot Sword and Mace, which seem to get filtered out past floor 4 if I'm not mistaken. There's a lot of 2-handed weapons all throughout Arcade, but Mace/Carrot only seem to appear in floors 3-4 (maybe 5-6?), and there's nothing better than that ahead for 1-handed users except the Steel Sword in Season Temple. I've yet to find the Laser Sword in the Flying Fortress at least.

ALSO: Unrelated, but it seems like - on my main character - I have a Steel Sword, a Ruby Rod and a Spiked Club. I've never, ever typed the item test command on my main character, only my secondary bugtesting character. Wtf? Where did these come from? I hope my personal inventory didn't get messed up after quitting out of that multiplayer Season Temple session. I only just now noticed it because I was trying to count the number of 1 and 2-handed weapons to figure out why I get so many 2-handed weapons in Arcade but so rarely get 1-handed ones.

I'm gonna be throwing these out of my inventory. D: Any other cheaty items I should be ditching?

 

[Teddy]

The world and character saves are separate, so the multiplayer-glitch shouldn't have messed with your inventory!

If your inventory has been messed up at load the consequences should be extremely noticeable (like you having millions of each item), so unless there are more crazy happenstances within your inventory, that probably isn't it.

Since the three of them are so closely related in terms of tier while being of three different kinds, my best guess is honestly that I long ago accidentally uploaded a build with debug commands enabled, and you pressed a numeric key which gave these specific items. (Just a guess though!)

You have a point about the rings not deserving the same fate as the socks and sandals! Maybe adding them to shops around Pumpkin Woods would be fair.

I've been toying with the idea of disabling the culling of the item pools, but I feel that would introduce too much luck when it comes to getting a decent build.

The reason you get more 2h weapons in Arcade mode might be that Fred just made a bunch of 2h weapons, so there are simply slightly more of those in the game ;D

 

[Own]

I've been toying with the idea of disabling the culling of the item pools, but I feel that would introduce too much luck when it comes to getting a decent build.

Yeah, there's nothing more disappointing than doing a challenge or opening a chest and finding out that it's an item you already have.

Honestly, I don't do challenges hoping to get a good item, I do them to weed out the 'bad' potential item drop pool and increase my chances of getting something good in the future. I probably wouldn't bother with challenges at all if I could get doubles of items I don't want, since challenges are the easiest way to take damage and ensure you don't get a health potion. The Risk vs Reward gets thrown off.

Please, please keep them.

 

[GarlicJelly]

Yeah, there's nothing more disappointing than doing a challenge or opening a chest and finding out that it's an item you already have.

Honestly, I don't do challenges hoping to get a good item, I do them to weed out the 'bad' potential item drop pool and increase my chances of getting something good in the future. I probably wouldn't bother with challenges at all if I could get doubles of items I don't want, since challenges are the easiest way to take damage and ensure you don't get a health potion. The Risk vs Reward gets thrown off.

Please, please keep them.

I feel like the challenges are worth taking in the beginning so you can quickly buy the items you "need" for your build. The challenges from the 5:th floor and beyond I haven't had any experience with but I think it's worth the risk at 1-4 because I know I can do them without failing. Having those extra items to sell off to get enough money to buy better gear is worth the risk of taking damage on your current floor since a new weapon might save you from taking damage when you DPS race the next floor.

 

[Own]

I feel like the challenges are worth taking in the beginning so you can quickly buy the items you "need" for your build.

I usually have all the gold I need to buy the things I want with or without the challenge rooms, though maybe that's due to the early shops not selling anything too decent. If they sold rings I'd probably change my mind on that.

But, off the top of my head, Challenges that are easy to take at least 1 point of damage on and lose your potion:

Kill In Order - Boar, Bee, Flower?
Don't Get Hit - 2 boars, 2 slimes, 2 flowers, tons of thorns.
Kill In Order - 2 beehives, Flower (If you can't burst the flower and then the beehives down quick enough, and you have a poor shield)
Kill In Order - Ghosts
Don't Get Hit - Random Spikes
Don't Get Hit - Bats swarming
Don't Get Hit - Random Spikes + Bats
Chicken Challenge - Chickens + Random Spikes
Kill In Order - 3 Wisps, Pecko
Don't Get Hit - Bullet Hell Pattern 1
Don't Get Hit - Bullet Hell Pattern 2
Chicken Challenge - Icy Floor, Spikes
Don't Get Hit - Blizzards

If I'm doing fine in a run and don't desperately need something, and I'm at full HP, I skip challenges. Extra Potion > A couple hundred gold in loot any time.