Magical Changes

[Cheynas]

Mulling over the magic system, and thinking hard about it I figured some things out that might improve it.

First up, there currently are FOUR summoning skills,

• Frosty Friend : ICE magic, summons a ground-walking melee friend.
• Cloud Strike : AIR magic, summons a flying cloud that attacks the ground beneath.
• Insect Swarm: EARTH magic, summons a starving swarm of insects that eats up your enemies.
• Summon Plant: EARTH magic, summons a stationary plant to attack enemies that gets too close.

Two of those skills are 'permanent', decreasing your max energy, while the other two are time based.

My first suggestion is to move three of those summoning skills into Support > Passive (renamed Summon) and remove the fourth.

Alternatively, remove the two EARTH magic and create a new form of 'permanent' summon in their place. (Ranged summon, anyone?)

What skills should we replace those summons with?

Well, if we look at each of the elements, we notice that they all have got their own special ability and each of them have got one ranged attack, one close-range attack and one targeted attack.

• Fire; burning (Damage over time)
  • Fireball; Ranged attack.
  • Flame Thrower; Close-range attack.
  • Meteor; Targeted attack.
• Ice; chilled (slowing effect)
  • Ice Spikes; Ranged attack.
  • Ice Nova; Close-range attack.
  • [Missing]; Targeted attack.
• Earth; shaken (stunning effect)
  • [Missing]; Ranged attack.
  • [Missing]; Close-range attack.
  • Earth Spike; Targeted attack.
• Air; piercing (attacks multiple enemies)
  • Chain Lightning; Ranged attack.
  • Wind Slash; Close-range attack.
  • [Missing]; Targeted attack.

That's just my opinion on what each of them are at least.

Now, what attacks could we put in for those [Missing] ones.

• Cold Snap; Ice Targeted attack.
  • Enemies in targeted area become chilled and will have decreased resistance against critical strikes.
  • Bronze charge: Deals a small amount of damage in a larger radius.
  • Silver charge: Larger area, and have a chance to freeze already chilled targets.
  • Gold charge: Persists for a few seconds, chilling any enemy that walks into the area.
• Stalactites; Earth Ranged attack.
  • Pulls up a chunk of earth and flings them at an opponent.
  • Bronze charge: Forms the earth into a stalactite, increasing damage.
  • Silver charge: Pulls up more earth, flinging three stalactites at the opponent.
  • Gold charge: Pulls up even more earth, adding two stalactites at an angle.
• Quake; Earth Close-Range attack.
  • Shakes the ground around you, making everyone move slower in the area.
  • Bronze charge: Expands the area, chance to stun lower level enemies.
  • Silver charge: Expands the area, you are able to move at full speed while in the area.
  • Gold charge: Encompasses a large area, you and allies are able to move at full speed despite the shaking.
• Tornado; Air Targeted attack.
  • Creates a gust of wind that pushes enemies towards the center.
  • Bronze charge: Pushes enemies faster towards the center. Smaller enemies already in the center have a chance to be lifted up into the air.
  • Silver charge: Persists for a few seconds, pulling enemies towards the center and lifting them up.
  • Gold charge: Slows larger enemies moving away from the center, and persists for longer.

Of course, none of these are balanced to each-other or any other skill, but if you have a better one, do comment below.

 

[MrChocodemon]

I like the ideas, but 3 out of 4 skill slow the enemy which is a lack of variety I think the earthquake shouldn't immobilize or slow enemies. I'm sorry that i don't have some sort of good criticism and can offer some creative options.
It would be sad if such cool skill would be more or less the same with different visuals

 

[Cheynas]

I'll admit, most of these were thought out with my Skill Synergies in mind... But even now, I can't think of a better close-range attack with earth theme.

An alternative could be just to have stalagmites rise from the ground damaging enemies around, but it wouldn't be too much different from the Earth Spike I think.
Wanted to give it the stun effect as well somehow...

 

[MrChocodemon]

I think the quake would look awesome and the stun makes sense, as you have problems standing or lose your grip.
I love the way the floor shattered in Pokemon XD

 

[Quote]

In my opinion the debuffs in this game are lacking.

Stalactites should maybe inflict bleed damage, which could both do some damage over time and lower the enemy attack (As you are bleeding, and can't very well swing with full force).
Robots can bleed, they bleed oil and coolant which would do the same thing as it would make them less effective at striking enemies. I could see very few enemies being truly immune to this.

My problem with Stalactites is that it feels like a forced close ranged Earth spikes that works like Ice spikes.
Perhaps you should put an earth wall directly in front of you, on bronze charge it gets more health, on gold it gets spikes so hitting it does more damage and on gold it explodes inflicting bleed?

This would give some utility along with damage when it has more levels. It can be used to block enemies to give yourself a breath and to run away. Boar about to run at you? Wall. Bullets of mass destruction? Wall (Can't guarantee its survivability though).

Problem is people in mass numbers may take this spell up and level it for bullet sponge bosses (See the Gun-D4m and PhaseMan) so you could literally just 'infinite block dance behind a wall' so perhaps this move should take more damage from projectiles but less from physical hits? That seems a bit harder to code, though. Perhaps just taking more damage from projectiles?

If Quake only effects you negatively then that's good, otherwise it's troll worthy and should not be put into the game.
Quake seems like it'd be better if it worked kind of like Rammus's ultimate in league of legends, where you send out earth quake pulses and the more charges means more pulses so you can do constant damage over a large area by simply kiting and guarding. Perhaps it could take up your mana permanently and the more charges the more it takes, but the faster and larger it becomes? Perhaps it should have a small (5-10%) rate of inflicting weakness to an enemy which lowers its defense?

Cold Snap seems like a Frost Nova that loses push back but gains range and, at gold, a lingering effect. Kind of underwhelming...but useful. The creativity behind it feels kind of lacking though, perhaps instead we could get something like Hail storm, which looks like blue meteors that fall from the sky but we have no control of it, but we do put a target location of where we want its radius to start. That way there could be a small circle, then a large circle indicating the actual entire radius, and the hail would fall randomly in that spot. If it hits an enemy they'd have a chance being stunned, and slowed enemies have a chance of being frozen. Allowing a conjunction effect when you just Frost nova to push enemies into a hailstorm.

Tornado seems amazing, but perhaps too amazing? That's all I have on this one. I'd probably, if not definitely, would pick this up even as a great sword main.


Just throwing in my opinions. I know they ended up entirely changing the spells you had, but I liked my ideas and thought to share them.

 

[Cheynas]

Let's see if I can de-construct your ideas and offer my opinions on them...

Stalactites should maybe inflict bleed damage, which could both do some damage over time and lower the enemy attack (As you are bleeding, and can't very well swing with full force).

So, basically 'bleed' would be a mix between FIREs DoT effect, and ICEs slow, you say?
I think that's a bit too much though. As I mentioned, Earth is the only thing that have got a stun effect and I kind of like stuns for them.

I do get what you are saying though, but I like my elements separate. It's just the way my mind works.

My problem with Stalactites is that it feels like a forced close ranged Earth spikes that works like Ice spikes.

Stalactites or Stalagmites?

Stalactites was what I called the ranged spears... so it's far from a close range attack.

Stalagmites was what I suggested instead of Quake, and yes... it'd be like a mix between Ice Spikes and Ice Nova.

Perhaps you should put an earth wall directly in front of you, on bronze charge it gets more health, on silver ((FTFY)) it gets spikes so hitting it does more damage and on gold it explodes inflicting bleed?

This would give some utility along with damage when it has more levels. It can be used to block enemies to give yourself a breath and to run away. Boar about to run at you? Wall. Bullets of mass destruction? Wall (Can't guarantee its survivability though).

Problem is people in mass numbers may take this spell up and level it for bullet sponge bosses (See the Gun-D4m and PhaseMan) so you could literally just 'infinite block dance behind a wall' so perhaps this move should take more damage from projectiles but less from physical hits? That seems a bit harder to code, though. Perhaps just taking more damage from projectiles?

I like the suggestion.
Alternatively, make it so each piece of the wall (I'm imagining some 'pillars' rising from the ground in a quarter-circle in front of you.) instantly gets destroyed by one hit. Protects you from a few ranged attacks but is not a bullet sponge, and for melee attacks it stops them quite well.

So, uncharged = 3 pillars, bronze = 5 pillars, silver = 7 pillars, gold = 9 pillars, ultimate = 11 pillars... ultimate giving you almost an entire circle, with just one or three pillars wide opening right behind you.
Silver only dealing damage when attacked, and gold exploding dealing damage in area sounds like good additions to them.

If Quake only effects you negatively then that's good, otherwise it's troll worthy and should not be put into the game.
Quake seems like it'd be better if it worked kind of like Rammus's ultimate in league of legends, where you send out earth quake pulses and the more charges means more pulses so you can do constant damage over a large area by simply kiting and guarding. Perhaps it could take up your mana permanently and the more charges the more it takes, but the faster and larger it becomes? Perhaps it should have a small (5-10%) rate of inflicting weakness to an enemy which lowers its defense?

My idea was to have Quake slow everyone down, unless you charge it up to Silver which makes you immune, or Gold which makes allies immune.
Of course, it'd have a long charge time, so charging Silver/Gold while being surrounded is not a good idea...

Cold Snap seems like a Frost Nova that loses push back but gains range and, at gold, a lingering effect. Kind of underwhelming...but useful. The creativity behind it feels kind of lacking though, perhaps instead we could get something like Hail storm, which looks like blue meteors that fall from the sky but we have no control of it, but we do put a target location of where we want its radius to start. That way there could be a small circle, then a large circle indicating the actual entire radius, and the hail would fall randomly in that spot. If it hits an enemy they'd have a chance being stunned, and slowed enemies have a chance of being frozen. Allowing a conjunction effect when you just Frost nova to push enemies into a hailstorm.

Well, I thought about having the lingering effect be in from start, but I kind of liked the idea of having a one-press freeze button at range.
Having a hailstorm would fit in at silver, giving it the lingering and damage and moving the freeze to bronze rank.

Which means that bronze Cold Snap would be a ranged Frost Nova, without the damage, but would improve into so much more at higher levels.

Tornado seems amazing, but perhaps too amazing? That's all I have on this one. I'd probably, if not definitely, would pick this up even as a great sword main.

Yeah, it's more of utility spell for everyone.
It certainly isn't one you'd want to accidentally touch while surrounded (targeting oneself, pulling everyone closer, instant death) but if you've got friends it's a great tool to gather everything up for a Smash!.

And as you said, it's a great utility even as a sword-main.
In all honesty, it was inspired by the Earth Spikes ability to throw enemies into the air, which I figured would make sense in an Tornado.

Could alter it so that uncharged and Bronze is a gale that pushes enemies away from the marker, and that Silver manages to 'turn the gale into a circle' and thus create a tornado... but that seems counter-intuitive to the name...
And changing the name to Gale, gives no reason why it'd turn into a tornado at higher levels.

Just throwing in my opinions. I know they ended up entirely changing the spells you had, but I liked my ideas and thought to share them.

Keep sharing them, and keep altering them.
As I said, I got these ideas after one nights sleep after reading the aforementioned topic... so there's many things I didn't think of.
Besides, my ideas are never good enough, they always needs moulding by other people to have potential.

 

[Quote]

So, basically 'bleed' would be a mix between FIREs DoT effect, and ICEs slow, you say?

Naw, more like a weaker fire DoT that also weakens damage, not slows the enemy. It wouldn't make them swing slower, but it would make their swing weaker. It doesn't need to be hyper significant.

Stalactites was what I called the ranged spears... so it's far from a close range attack.

Oh, whoops, I read that as close ranged due to skimming and thought it sounded like an earth flak-cannon. My bad.

My idea was to have Quake slow everyone down, unless you charge it up to Silver which makes you immune, or Gold which makes allies immune.
Of course, it'd have a long charge time, so charging Silver/Gold while being surrounded is not a good idea...

It just seems something I would never want to pick up because I'd end up using it to help myself, but I'd accidentally kill my friend without even realizing.

Well, I thought about having the lingering effect be in from start, but I kind of liked the idea of having a one-press freeze button at range.
Having a hailstorm would fit in at silver, giving it the lingering and damage and moving the freeze to bronze rank.

Which means that bronze Cold Snap would be a ranged Frost Nova, without the damage, but would improve into so much more at higher levels.

I actually imagined hail storm as a very large radius area that would be an unpredictable storm of things raining down to hit things. It's be unpredictable, but still very effective in large crowds; however, if you were to couple that with a large slowdown field forcing enemies to slow down while they are in the danger zone would be really cool.

Yeah, it's more of utility spell for everyone.
It certainly isn't one you'd want to accidentally touch while surrounded (targeting oneself, pulling everyone closer, instant death) but if you've got friends it's a great tool to gather everything up for a Smash!.

And as you said, it's a great utility even as a sword-main.
In all honesty, it was inspired by the Earth Spikes ability to throw enemies into the air, which I figured would make sense in an Tornado.

Could alter it so that uncharged and Bronze is a gale that pushes enemies away from the marker, and that Silver manages to 'turn the gale into a circle' and thus create a tornado... but that seems counter-intuitive to the name...
And changing the name to Gale, gives no reason why it'd turn into a tornado at higher levels.

I don't think it should turn into a tornado, as you said that would seem wonky, but I can't say how 'OP' it would be as I don't have it in front of me to play test with. Might be one of those 'on paper' moments, you know?

Keep sharing them, and keep altering them.
As I said, I got these ideas after one nights sleep after reading the aforementioned topic... so there's many things I didn't think of.
Besides, my ideas are never good enough, they always needs molding by other people to have potential.

The power of bouncing ideas. It be a powerful one.