Secrets of Grindea speedruns
- Thread starter Own
- Start date
Own
Moderator
Some numbers for speedrunners, using equipment you could realistically get during the run up to Season Temple.
DEF combinations:
Archer's Apple: +0
Pumpkin Mask: +10
Phasehelm: +24
Nothing: +0
Adventure Shirt: +4
Brawler Plate: +10
Chainmail: +15
Nothing: +0
Phaseman Boots: +5
Bird Feet: +10.
Best case: +49 DEF / +44 with Brawler
Worst: +15, missing Steel Sword /+19 with Adventure Shirt
At what exact DEF can a 1H speedrunner play reckless and tank hits? Figuring that out goes a long way to figuring out if Chainmail is necessary, or if that can go towards Potions/Steel Sword.
Apple + Chainmail is a low damage, careful playthrough.
Phasehelm alone affords a massive block of defense. Helm + Boots/Feet + Brawler or better allows a complete disregard for all damage. Anyone want to test out the sweet spot # for DEF for Season Temple, and for Power Flower?
Pumpkin also seems strictly better than Apple if you get it for both DEF and the huge ATK bonus, worth equipping for the rest of the run if Helm doesn't drop.
With a quick look, a Winter Knight does 23 DMG vs 15 DEF, 22 DMG vs 19 DEF, 15 DMG vs 48 DEF.
DEF combinations:
Archer's Apple: +0
Pumpkin Mask: +10
Phasehelm: +24
Nothing: +0
Adventure Shirt: +4
Brawler Plate: +10
Chainmail: +15
Nothing: +0
Phaseman Boots: +5
Bird Feet: +10.
Best case: +49 DEF / +44 with Brawler
Worst: +15, missing Steel Sword /+19 with Adventure Shirt
At what exact DEF can a 1H speedrunner play reckless and tank hits? Figuring that out goes a long way to figuring out if Chainmail is necessary, or if that can go towards Potions/Steel Sword.
Apple + Chainmail is a low damage, careful playthrough.
Phasehelm alone affords a massive block of defense. Helm + Boots/Feet + Brawler or better allows a complete disregard for all damage. Anyone want to test out the sweet spot # for DEF for Season Temple, and for Power Flower?
Pumpkin also seems strictly better than Apple if you get it for both DEF and the huge ATK bonus, worth equipping for the rest of the run if Helm doesn't drop.
With a quick look, a Winter Knight does 23 DMG vs 15 DEF, 22 DMG vs 19 DEF, 15 DMG vs 48 DEF.
JamesKT
Boar
A good question in regards to this is does defense even take account when dealing with Poison & Acid in the case of Mount Bloom? For the most part this hasn't really crossed my mind of something to test until recently. I might test it a little later but for now I'll leave the question up in the air.
GarlicJelly
Friendly Moderator (Formerly known as GoodStuff)
The poison trail from the larvas is probably affected by DEF but the "POSION FOG" is scaled on Max HP so I'm pretty sure DEF won't help.
Own
Moderator
Poison: A % of Max HP. Both in poison caves and from Toxic Tulips.
Acid:
19 DEF Acid damage: 12 x 4.
48 DEF Acid damage: 12 x 4.
Damage with / without pink shirt on: 12 x 4.
Is the acid damage bugged, @Teddy? Or is this intended? I'm not sure how the acid is scaling, if it's meant to at all.
Shrooms:
19 DEF: 20 dmg bite.
48 DEF: 13 dmg bite.
Spinsect:
19 DEF: 34 DMG spinning.
48 DEF: 23 DMG spinning.
Acid:
19 DEF Acid damage: 12 x 4.
48 DEF Acid damage: 12 x 4.
Damage with / without pink shirt on: 12 x 4.
Is the acid damage bugged, @Teddy? Or is this intended? I'm not sure how the acid is scaling, if it's meant to at all.
Shrooms:
19 DEF: 20 dmg bite.
48 DEF: 13 dmg bite.
Spinsect:
19 DEF: 34 DMG spinning.
48 DEF: 23 DMG spinning.
The G-Meister
Giga Slime
I'm doing some research into DEF at the moment, which is yet to be finished, but I've got a somewhat reliable trend so far. The formula works like so:
Damage taken = ATK * e^(0.01 * DEF)
Where e is the mathematical constant which has something to do with exponentials, the ATK is the damage you take with no +DEF (which you can work out by taking a couple hits with no +DEF, which might be a little difficult if you happen to have some DEF boosting cards) and the DEF is your defence value.
I'll work on expanding this documentation in the future, but for now, that formula should give you a rough indication. Bear in mind it doesn't work with a few attacks, such as guardian laser beams.
As for the amount of DEF needed to tank hits, I often have to pump DEF in arcade, while also having a lot of HP. It depends on the area you're in, and I'll come up with what seems like an effective DEF value for each area as part of my project, while also providing the formulas and graphical representations as to which is better to pump: HP or DEF.
Damage taken = ATK * e^(0.01 * DEF)
Where e is the mathematical constant which has something to do with exponentials, the ATK is the damage you take with no +DEF (which you can work out by taking a couple hits with no +DEF, which might be a little difficult if you happen to have some DEF boosting cards) and the DEF is your defence value.
I'll work on expanding this documentation in the future, but for now, that formula should give you a rough indication. Bear in mind it doesn't work with a few attacks, such as guardian laser beams.
As for the amount of DEF needed to tank hits, I often have to pump DEF in arcade, while also having a lot of HP. It depends on the area you're in, and I'll come up with what seems like an effective DEF value for each area as part of my project, while also providing the formulas and graphical representations as to which is better to pump: HP or DEF.
The G-Meister
Giga Slime
That all depends on your stats at the time. For arguments sake, say you have 1000 ATK and 0% Crit, the +14% crit will much outweigh +20 ATK. If you want, throw some stats in my general direction and I'll use my spreadsheet to come up with a percentage difference for you.
JamesKT
Boar
God damnit Owned I said don't say it! rip :<No chainmail?Awesome.
But on a more serious note, the fact that I got away with a 10 Defense Run is absurd. The amount of RNG that happened I don't feel should've happened considering I didn't get the Carrot Sword. I think I did bring up that I should've sold the Carrot Sword to get more Potions... What is wrong with me. lol
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JamesKT
Boar
Another thing worth bringing up is 2Handers. How viable do you guys think they would be now with Club getting buffed and even the 2H knight weapons in play? Yay? Nay? I've thought about running 2H to see how effective it could be as of late. There's little to no extra farming required(No Carrot Sword/Witch Hat) + I can keep a wooden sword to dash with if I want.
The G-Meister
Giga Slime
The good thing is you can switch between them with hotkeys, but that's gonna get pretty annoying on the fly. I haven't used 2H much myself so I'm not one to give you any advice, but I can at least say I've tried the switching - it's difficult to do quickly, especially if you're going around killing brawler bots for the odd level.
JamesKT
Boar
I think I'll do an experimental stream to see how 2H works out. Working out Giga Slime 2 phasing with that will be a challenge since things will be obviously different.
EDIT: I did a full run and experimented with a possible skip... It bugged the game out and I couldn't progress until I went to the main menu of the game. lol I'll be highlighting it, exporting it to YouTube, and putting it in the bug section later.
EDIT: I did a full run and experimented with a possible skip... It bugged the game out and I couldn't progress until I went to the main menu of the game. lol I'll be highlighting it, exporting it to YouTube, and putting it in the bug section later.
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JamesKT
Boar
Since the Stable version has been out, I've routed in a THIRD Shopping trip since new items are available. In the case that Fall's Edge doesn't drop, I've opted to sell things from Seasonne to the vendor in the fair to buy the Scimitar as a replacement. Otherwise I buy the Chain Mail since I've been buying the Steel Sword during the second one.
I also don't think I've brought this up but does anyone think that Routing in Lightning Gloves when Tai Ming comes out would be Ideal? I think the additional damage it offers could be a benefit. Could require testing though.
As far as runs go for 0.650a, I'm looking to replace my 0.611alabama run to keep the run "Current". I'm going to compare 10 runs and upload the best of the 10 on YouTube so that'll continue today in 2 hours. Right now the best closest to my PB with the map changes is 48:14
I also don't think I've brought this up but does anyone think that Routing in Lightning Gloves when Tai Ming comes out would be Ideal? I think the additional damage it offers could be a benefit. Could require testing though.
As far as runs go for 0.650a, I'm looking to replace my 0.611alabama run to keep the run "Current". I'm going to compare 10 runs and upload the best of the 10 on YouTube so that'll continue today in 2 hours.
Right now the best closest to my PB with the map changes is 48:14
Speaking of speedruns, I forgot to mention that I added a /preload command to the latest patch!
It will make your game totally flip out for a while, rendering any texture it can find among all the content folders. You could try it in place of a practice run sometime to see if it helps with the loading times!
As I mentioned in a different post, it's not quite what it sounds like, as XNA couldn't seem to handle having 1.5GB of textures loaded into memory... but it should hopefully cache the files at least.
It will make your game totally flip out for a while, rendering any texture it can find among all the content folders. You could try it in place of a practice run sometime to see if it helps with the loading times!
As I mentioned in a different post, it's not quite what it sounds like, as XNA couldn't seem to handle having 1.5GB of textures loaded into memory... but it should hopefully cache the files at least.
luckyb
Green Slime
Found some things:
While having 1H sword equipped and doing the dodging and switching to a 2H will stop the attack ( but consumes EP ... )
idk if it works with the dash too and if so will it consume EP? if not faster way to travel
speaking of faster way to travel:
is the backjumping switching weapon thingy (meantioned above) faster than dashing/walking... i know it consumes EP but dashing too ;D maybe for TAS runs it might be helpful
speaking of TAS:
does any1 tried to start a TAS run on that game? i streamed yesterday to get this backjumping going but it dont want to work now i want to make a makro if you press "left" he turns right and do the backjumping once and after that only the backjumping without the turn right thing the reason why i want this turn right thing is if you look up he will go down. so the controls for walking will be inverted but yeah ill try and test that if dashing is faster than this it looks really cool if its done multiple times ( i mean the dodging method )
@Teddy i cant see a difference between my unpreloaded loadingtimes and preloaded... maybe its too small and adds up in the end but it loads everything so it works ( it shows up some random pictures and counts in chat to OVER 9000 )
While having 1H sword equipped and doing the dodging and switching to a 2H will stop the attack ( but consumes EP ... )
idk if it works with the dash too and if so will it consume EP? if not faster way to travel
speaking of faster way to travel:
is the backjumping switching weapon thingy (meantioned above) faster than dashing/walking... i know it consumes EP but dashing too ;D maybe for TAS runs it might be helpful
speaking of TAS:
does any1 tried to start a TAS run on that game? i streamed yesterday to get this backjumping going but it dont want to work now i want to make a makro if you press "left" he turns right and do the backjumping once and after that only the backjumping without the turn right thing
the reason why i want this turn right thing is if you look up he will go down. so the controls for walking will be inverted but yeah ill try and test that if dashing is faster than this it looks really cool if its done multiple times ( i mean the dodging method )@Teddy i cant see a difference between my unpreloaded loadingtimes and preloaded... maybe its too small
and adds up in the end but it loads everything so it works ( it shows up some random pictures and counts in chat to OVER 9000 )
GarlicJelly
Friendly Moderator (Formerly known as GoodStuff)
Isn't a TAS run when you've programmed a computer to run the whole game by itself and therefore getting the best time possible without mistakes? That seems like an impossible thing to do for this game since the enemies are so random and you'd need a way to always make the same enemies appear in a room in order to have some kind of strategy to get through the game as quick as possible.
On the note of Piercing Dash vs Dodging Strike I think Piercing Dash is the fastest way to travel since you can't refund the Dodging Strike at Normal or Bronze charge and get full refund so jumping backwards with Dodging Strike will not be faster. Turning around and dashing forward with Dodging Strike will get you just as far as you would get with Piercing Strike and that requires less skill to use and it's the same EP cost (I think).
On the note of Piercing Dash vs Dodging Strike I think Piercing Dash is the fastest way to travel since you can't refund the Dodging Strike at Normal or Bronze charge and get full refund so jumping backwards with Dodging Strike will not be faster. Turning around and dashing forward with Dodging Strike will get you just as far as you would get with Piercing Strike and that requires less skill to use and it's the same EP cost (I think).
luckyb
Green Slime
Isn't a TAS run when you've programmed a computer to run the whole game by itself and therefore getting the best time possible without mistakes? That seems like an impossible thing to do for this game since the enemies are so random and you'd need a way to always make the same enemies appear in a room in order to have some kind of strategy to get through the game as quick as possible.
On the note of Piercing Dash vs Dodging Strike I think Piercing Dash is the fastest way to travel since you can't refund the Dodging Strike at Normal or Bronze charge and get full refund so jumping backwards with Dodging Strike will not be faster. Turning around and dashing forward with Dodging Strike will get you just as far as you would get with Piercing Strike and that requires less skill to use and it's the same EP cost (I think).
but it looks great xD