[Suggesstion] Healer Class?
- Thread starter Tibbysan
- Start date
res7less
Jumpkin
I wish there would be healing skills too, but I assume there wont be any since it would strongly tip the balance for the arcade mode. They could be counterbalanced if they would would be only castable on allies and require health instead of energy, but that might prove to be a complicated thing to do. But hey, who knows what devious plans the devs might have in mind.
Thalldor
Green Slime
I have a few friends who just love me, love the game. But they were sad that there was no Healer Class. I was wondering if that could be a thing?(Sorry if this is the wrong area for this ^^; )
I'm sure that they have been avoiding any healing skills as it has been talked about but it is simply put aside. I would have to agree that it may tip the scales if that does occur. It is to be believed that they may one day have it but that still isn't confirmed. We don't even know if they will put healing potions in the main story mode yet.
As of right now, we have no plans for healing spells (or potions). There will be more support spells in the future, but no heals! There are many reasons for this, even though I understand how odd it might seem. Healing classes and potions seem to be a must in many RPGs after all! But with this game, we've taken the risk of not adding them, and right now I personally think the game is better for it
For example: if there's a healing spell, we'd have to balance the enemies for that, which means anyone not using the spell will be at a big advantage or the game would be too easy for people using it if we just added it in without a rebalance. So that would essentially force people to pick heal or play a much harder game, and I personally don't like it in games where it's so obvious that one spell is a must have. (But yes, the big problem with this is the headache the complete rebalance would give us + the amount of time it would take that could be spent creating new areas!)
Focusing too much on a support/healer class could also create situations where, in Arcade Mode runs, for instance, "forcing" someone to play a pure support character will be advantageous, as you do need those heals after all. And let's face it - a lot of people don't like to play the support (the League of Legends queue timer is a great example of this - people picking support have no queue time at all, because supports are always sought after but rarely played, while if you pick any other roles, you often have to wait a long while before there's room for you). So, you're in a group of 4 friends where nobody wants to play support, but because you wanna aim for the highest possible score one of you decide to "sacrifice" their ideal build to be the healer... Back when I still played MMORPGS and similar I saw this happen all the time, and I thought it would just be more fun if nobody had to play something they don't like just for the group to survive 10 minutes in the game.
Of course I do realize there are a lot of people who love playing the priest/healer/support in games like this as well! But I also believe it's more common for a support to be able to enjoy playing a non-support, than the other way around.
Anyway, aside from the balance issues this is just my personal opinions and ramblings! Pay no attention to me, haha (should definitely get back to work now)
For example: if there's a healing spell, we'd have to balance the enemies for that, which means anyone not using the spell will be at a big advantage or the game would be too easy for people using it if we just added it in without a rebalance. So that would essentially force people to pick heal or play a much harder game, and I personally don't like it in games where it's so obvious that one spell is a must have. (But yes, the big problem with this is the headache the complete rebalance would give us + the amount of time it would take that could be spent creating new areas!)
Focusing too much on a support/healer class could also create situations where, in Arcade Mode runs, for instance, "forcing" someone to play a pure support character will be advantageous, as you do need those heals after all. And let's face it - a lot of people don't like to play the support (the League of Legends queue timer is a great example of this - people picking support have no queue time at all, because supports are always sought after but rarely played, while if you pick any other roles, you often have to wait a long while before there's room for you). So, you're in a group of 4 friends where nobody wants to play support, but because you wanna aim for the highest possible score one of you decide to "sacrifice" their ideal build to be the healer... Back when I still played MMORPGS and similar I saw this happen all the time, and I thought it would just be more fun if nobody had to play something they don't like just for the group to survive 10 minutes in the game.
Of course I do realize there are a lot of people who love playing the priest/healer/support in games like this as well! But I also believe it's more common for a support to be able to enjoy playing a non-support, than the other way around.
Anyway, aside from the balance issues this is just my personal opinions and ramblings! Pay no attention to me, haha (should definitely get back to work now)
Thalldor
Green Slime
As of right now, we have no plans for healing spells (or potions). There will be more support spells in the future, but no heals! There are many reasons for this, even though I understand how odd it might seem. Healing classes and potions seem to be a must in many RPGs after all! But with this game, we've taken the risk of not adding them, and right now I personally think the game is better for it
For example: if there's a healing spell, we'd have to balance the enemies for that, which means anyone not using the spell will be at a big advantage or the game would be too easy for people using it if we just added it in without a rebalance. So that would essentially force people to pick heal or play a much harder game, and I personally don't like it in games where it's so obvious that one spell is a must have. (But yes, the big problem with this is the headache the complete rebalance would give us + the amount of time it would take that could be spent creating new areas!)
Focusing too much on a support/healer class could also create situations where, in Arcade Mode runs, for instance, "forcing" someone to play a pure support character will be advantageous, as you do need those heals after all. And let's face it - a lot of people don't like to play the support (the League of Legends queue timer is a great example of this - people picking support have no queue time at all, because supports are always sought after but rarely played, while if you pick any other roles, you often have to wait a long while before there's room for you). So, you're in a group of 4 friends where nobody wants to play support, but because you wanna aim for the highest possible score one of you decide to "sacrifice" their ideal build to be the healer... Back when I still played MMORPGS and similar I saw this happen all the time, and I thought it would just be more fun if nobody had to play something they don't like just for the group to survive 10 minutes in the game.
Of course I do realize there are a lot of people who love playing the priest/healer/support in games like this as well! But I also believe it's more common for a support to be able to enjoy playing a non-support, than the other way around.
Anyway, aside from the balance issues this is just my personal opinions and ramblings! Pay no attention to me, haha (should definitely get back to work now)
Haha, you're just like me rambling on when I should be working. xD
(Please note: I do talk about other games in this post that are not made by this company but it is related to my discussion.) I have no intentions of advertising these games and I am only using them for the purpose of this discussion, if you believe that I should do something regarding this please let me know.
Aye, i figured it would cause balance issues (Although there are potions in arcade
) I am indeed one of those people that like playing support (Or the tank) I never like being the DPS, I'm always bad it... No idea why. xD THat or I like to be a super glass cannon (Via playing murky in heros of the storm, has no hp but can just about 1 shot every character in the game.) And so this game doesn't entirely fit my playing style xD. All of this stuff is very interesting and I believe that while a healer could work in this game I still agree on you as that will help people try to minimize their mistakes to avoid damage as well it just about makes it where people can more or less do their own thing. Although perhaps for people that is terrible at DPS there could be a type of idea of where there can be some sort of class that can still support the allies other than healing and it is that guys goal to do the thing but it isn't entirely 100% needed for stuff like arcade. Maybe something like a bard in EQ2 or something around there may even work
res7less
Jumpkin
Haha, it's like you quoted my mind
I'm exactly one of those people as well. While I might not "suck" at playing DPS, it takes me probably a lot more practice than for other people to become good at this role, while not giving me back much fun in return - I simply do not enjoy it as much as tanking or supporting. My preferred role is tank, or healer/support, always was.While I find the idea interesting to completely refrain from healing skills, especially with your reasons provided, which I find very reasonable, in my opinion it would even be more intriguing to at least think about ways to implement balanced healing. It's pretty obvious that skills, that would simply cost flat energy while dishing out flat healing would break the game, but here are a few ways it might still work to combine having the possibility of a supportive/tanky character without taking away from arcade mode and/or forcing players to take a skill in a party:
Way 1: Health as a resource cost.
If a healing spell costs health instead of energy, it becomes more lucrative, the more party members a party has. Thus, the more party members a party has, the higher is the chance that one of them likes to play support.
Advantages:
- Usable in Arcade Mode, since the resource does not regenerate.
- Prevents overuse and "artificial" extension of game time by waiting, healing, waiting healing.
- Groups of 2 or 3 players won't see that skill as a "must" since its effectiveness would be debatable
Disadvantages:
- Practically useless when playing alone
Way 2: Healing by dealing damage
A skill that would deal damage and heal for a percentual amount of damage dealt would make a fun battle healer. It could either be a self-buff that provides group healing (or closest party member healing to make positioning more important) from all damage or a castable spell that does so. Additionally, it would prevent a supportive player from "standing in the back row with glowing hands" all the time.
Advantages:
- Very interesting and versatile playstyle
- No enemies = no healing, thus usable in Arcade Mode
Disadvantages:
- Too strong scaling might make it a too lucrative for damage dealers to pick
Way 3: Healing by blocking
A skill that grants healing by blocking attacks might spawn interesting tank builds and it would fit into the system, granting larger bonuses on perfect blocks. This way would be difficult to design, since it's vulnerable to exploit in Arcade Mode.
Advantages:
- Finally a skill for tanks!
- People might start using their shields a bit more
- No attackers = no healing, thus possible in Arcade Mode
Disadvantages:
- Players might feel forced to kite an enemy without killing it, to get fully healed
Okay! Those were some ways spontaneously off my mind, I'm sure with more thought there are more and better ways, but I wouldn't think it to be an impossible task, though I agree, it would be very difficult to balance. But, support players would be happy!
The G-Meister
Giga Slime
I could probably shove a few more ideas into my suggestions for those. I'll have a ponder.
Prometheus
Green Slime
There's a MOBA, Bloodline Champions, where the healers of the game are more hybrid caster/healers, and there's a reduction in how effective heals are (or a limit, depending iirc) so you can only heal so much before it becomes useless for a time. It'd be nice to have more healy/support spells but I can understand why they were excluded.
KoBeWi
Jumpkin
Bottles?
I wrote this idea in a thread about potions, but it could work here if expanded.
Basically, the main problem with healing skills is that they are likely to use EP, and since EP is infinite, that would cause infinite HP. So the idea is to make it based on some other, limited resource.
Bottles.
They are known from Zelda games where you need a bottle to buy a potion. Since they are limited, why couldn't we have health potions?
Then, potions alone bring up two more possibilities:
Special Potions - potions with area effect, so you can e.g. heal your friends or apply health steal.
Alchemist class - which bring abilities that utilize potions, so instead of simply drinking them, you could spread their effect over your friends (group heal) or create a lasting aura out of potion. Some of alchemic talents could include refilling a bottle when you die.
The alchemist idea I had just when writing this post, but sounds pretty cool. Set of skill specializing on potions like on weapons? With health potions, it could work as healer too. But don't forget: bottles.
I wrote this idea in a thread about potions, but it could work here if expanded.
Basically, the main problem with healing skills is that they are likely to use EP, and since EP is infinite, that would cause infinite HP. So the idea is to make it based on some other, limited resource.
Bottles.
They are known from Zelda games where you need a bottle to buy a potion. Since they are limited, why couldn't we have health potions?
Then, potions alone bring up two more possibilities:
Special Potions - potions with area effect, so you can e.g. heal your friends or apply health steal.
Alchemist class - which bring abilities that utilize potions, so instead of simply drinking them, you could spread their effect over your friends (group heal) or create a lasting aura out of potion. Some of alchemic talents could include refilling a bottle when you die.
The alchemist idea I had just when writing this post, but sounds pretty cool. Set of skill specializing on potions like on weapons? With health potions, it could work as healer too. But don't forget: bottles.
The G-Meister
Giga Slime
While I'd love that to become a mechanic, I think Max HP would have to take a nerf for that to happen, otherwise you end up with (as for most Zelda games with me) 3/4 bottles of useless healing potion for the final boss because you've got all the heart cannister upgrades, and the fight is surprisingly easy
Prometheus
Green Slime
I'd also like to bring up Lifesteal and Spellvamp as ways to restore hp.
GarlicJelly
Friendly Moderator (Formerly known as GoodStuff)
The guaranteed critical hit after a perfect guard could maybe heal once every minute? That way you wouldn't totally mess with Arcade mode. (but the possibility is still there)
It'd be nice to see a wide range of buffs. Such as:
Movement speed
Unique "skill enhancement toggles". Ice, fire, lightning, earth. Each causing different effects (slow, burns, stun, chain dmg). This way support could do some damage while being a support. It'd also allow skills to be more flexible.
Movement speed
Unique "skill enhancement toggles". Ice, fire, lightning, earth. Each causing different effects (slow, burns, stun, chain dmg). This way support could do some damage while being a support. It'd also allow skills to be more flexible.
DarkMetaknight
Rabby
Perhaps a skill that "encases" health orbs for future small AOE use?
When you pick up an orb, if the storage is full, the health orb is used as normal, otherwise it fills a slot.
If you hit multiple targets, the health is split among the targets, doesn't heal Snow Buddy or enemies.
For tiers, bronze stores 1, silver stores 2, and gold stores 3.
Pros:
- healing during boss fights, without a limitless supply.
- Rewards having full health and collecting an orb.
- Not irrelevant in singleplayer.
Cons:
- Still not sure what continuous upgrades (between tiers) will do, increasing healing sounds a bit OP, even if it's subtle like say, 1% per upgrade.
When you pick up an orb, if the storage is full, the health orb is used as normal, otherwise it fills a slot.
If you hit multiple targets, the health is split among the targets, doesn't heal Snow Buddy or enemies.
For tiers, bronze stores 1, silver stores 2, and gold stores 3.
Pros:
- healing during boss fights, without a limitless supply.
- Rewards having full health and collecting an orb.
- Not irrelevant in singleplayer.
Cons:
- Still not sure what continuous upgrades (between tiers) will do, increasing healing sounds a bit OP, even if it's subtle like say, 1% per upgrade.
Aro-Knight
Green Slime
HP= Survival Points... or something
and like, everyone else says: OP. I do miss white mages and stuff tho...
and like, everyone else says: OP. I do miss white mages and stuff tho...
D
Deleted member 8580
Guest
As of right now, we have no plans for healing spells (or potions). There will be more support spells in the future, but no heals! There are many reasons for this, even though I understand how odd it might seem. Healing classes and potions seem to be a must in many RPGs after all! But with this game, we've taken the risk of not adding them, and right now I personally think the game is better for it
For example: if there's a healing spell, we'd have to balance the enemies for that, which means anyone not using the spell will be at a big advantage or the game would be too easy for people using it if we just added it in without a rebalance. So that would essentially force people to pick heal or play a much harder game, and I personally don't like it in games where it's so obvious that one spell is a must have. (But yes, the big problem with this is the headache the complete rebalance would give us + the amount of time it would take that could be spent creating new areas!)
Focusing too much on a support/healer class could also create situations where, in Arcade Mode runs, for instance, "forcing" someone to play a pure support character will be advantageous, as you do need those heals after all. And let's face it - a lot of people don't like to play the support (the League of Legends queue timer is a great example of this - people picking support have no queue time at all, because supports are always sought after but rarely played, while if you pick any other roles, you often have to wait a long while before there's room for you). So, you're in a group of 4 friends where nobody wants to play support, but because you wanna aim for the highest possible score one of you decide to "sacrifice" their ideal build to be the healer... Back when I still played MMORPGS and similar I saw this happen all the time, and I thought it would just be more fun if nobody had to play something they don't like just for the group to survive 10 minutes in the game.
Of course I do realize there are a lot of people who love playing the priest/healer/support in games like this as well! But I also believe it's more common for a support to be able to enjoy playing a non-support, than the other way around.
Anyway, aside from the balance issues this is just my personal opinions and ramblings! Pay no attention to me, haha (should definitely get back to work now)
Well, probably a good "healing" sistem would be to have some sort of magic that creates not a heal but some sort of absortion, so let's say i use a magic and it creates an common shield among all players based on my MATK, in exchange it take some of my EP out, but it's value will always be the same so it won't actually create any incentives to just spam that in order to become imortal, and let's say i don't want players who don't get this to be in a disavantage, make the shield only absorb let's say 70% of the total damage, for example:
absorb has 300hp
mob hit for 100
absorb take 70 dmg & actual hp take only 30 dmg
absorb now has 230hp
boss hits for 1000hp (for easy calculation)
absorb take the 230hp, breaks, player take the other 670 hp damage.
so it would feel like some sort of sustain, but working as a heal.:
and in multiplayer:
p1 create an absorb w/ 200hp
p2 takes a hit, absorb hold 70dmg p2 take only 30
absorb now has 130hp
boss hits p1 for 1000hp (easy calculation again! Sorry for beign so lazy)
p1 then take 870 hp damage, and absorb takes the other 130hp and breaks.
i think i made miself clear (ask again i might explain again if i need to), it is a viable sistem, would fit right in the supporter or healer role, since in grindea we can't actually have a tank (tho i would love to get a way to use shield for offensive, imagine you hitting the enemy with your shield and the shield taking dmg in it's own hp as well as the target) the supporter would be really welcome, with or without any healing spell.
Tibbysan
Green Slime
As of right now, we have no plans for healing spells (or potions). There will be more support spells in the future, but no heals! There are many reasons for this, even though I understand how odd it might seem. Healing classes and potions seem to be a must in many RPGs after all! But with this game, we've taken the risk of not adding them, and right now I personally think the game is better for it
For example: if there's a healing spell, we'd have to balance the enemies for that, which means anyone not using the spell will be at a big advantage or the game would be too easy for people using it if we just added it in without a rebalance. So that would essentially force people to pick heal or play a much harder game, and I personally don't like it in games where it's so obvious that one spell is a must have. (But yes, the big problem with this is the headache the complete rebalance would give us + the amount of time it would take that could be spent creating new areas!)
Focusing too much on a support/healer class could also create situations where, in Arcade Mode runs, for instance, "forcing" someone to play a pure support character will be advantageous, as you do need those heals after all. And let's face it - a lot of people don't like to play the support (the League of Legends queue timer is a great example of this - people picking support have no queue time at all, because supports are always sought after but rarely played, while if you pick any other roles, you often have to wait a long while before there's room for you). So, you're in a group of 4 friends where nobody wants to play support, but because you wanna aim for the highest possible score one of you decide to "sacrifice" their ideal build to be the healer... Back when I still played MMORPGS and similar I saw this happen all the time, and I thought it would just be more fun if nobody had to play something they don't like just for the group to survive 10 minutes in the game.
Of course I do realize there are a lot of people who love playing the priest/healer/support in games like this as well! But I also believe it's more common for a support to be able to enjoy playing a non-support, than the other way around.
Anyway, aside from the balance issues this is just my personal opinions and ramblings! Pay no attention to me, haha (should definitely get back to work now)
Oh, I see, braking away from the genre, I gotcha. Makes sence, but what about if it not be in Arcade mode, and only in Story? Then again, then it comes down to re-stating the monsters, I assume?