[Suggestion] Overkill System or Combo System

[Vysen]

I had a quick thought come to mind about two systems that would help reduce on the grinding in the game but at a far level, making it so people can't just zoom through it but don't spend hours grinding for one thing.

The Overkill System is simple. When an enemy is one shot the remaining damage is converted into extra experience points and item/card drop chance. Say the enemy has 100 life and the player does 150 damage. The item - let's say it has a 2% drop chance - would have its drop chance increased by 50%, which turns the 2% drop chance into a 3% drop chance. The card and experience would have the same growth, of course.

The Combo System is even simpler. Each kill adds to the combo, which adds to a percentage multiplier. In this case one would have to kill 50 monsters, regardless if they are overkilled or not, to increase the experience and drop chances by 50%. Basically the same as before but makes it so people have to earn, and maintain, the bonus versus getting it instantly on a kill. This combo could be lost after 5 seconds, maybe more or less, or be kept until damaged, where the entire combo is lost. It could also be a mix of both to make it even more challenging to maintain and be even fairer!

Obviously, both these systems shouldn't be put into place at once, would make grinding next to non-existant in the game unless proper restrictions took place. If both were to be added to the game then they shouldn't be overlapping. One should trump the other. Say the overkill system adds 20% then it would trump the combo system until it adds 21% or more, making it so people may still have an instant bonus on everything but can still earn higher if they want.

These two ideas are just to help with the grinding in the game and make it so people have to work to gain the bonus too. Have to earn the one-hit overkill bonus, or have to keep the combo up. Either one would be nice and just wanted to bring the thoughts to the surface, see what both the developers and players think.

Those who vote I'd enjoy it if you posted why! No pressure and you obviously don't have to, but if you have the time please do write a comment about it.

 

[Ardeof]

I could see the overkill system being a thing to an extent. But it could be easily abused by players as well. Maybe if it just affected card/item drop rate and didn't scale 1:1 compared to the overkill. Otherwise you'd have players skipping everything and coming back later to 1 shot a slime for 5000 damage to get an item instantly, cutting time loss by a huge amount.

 

[Smallsplat]

The game is completable without grinding, just significantly harder. Cards and loot are earned through dedication and luck, and increasing the chances removes the point of them being rare. The game is about grinding, grinding to become the best you can. Making the cards have a higher drop rate lowers the reward of not only the card, but of the self value.

Another thing is this would promote specific builds. Lighting spell (for combo) or Meteorite (For overkill) would be must-picks for grinding due to how easy it it so chain up enemies or its insane damage. The game currently promotes all play styles, the only deciding factor drop luck.

Also in a personal (and selfish) level, I grinded my ass off for 100%. I'd be really darn pissed if they added a system that made drops easier to get. My 100% would be worth so much less due to how much easier it would be to get.

To continue, 1% is a significant difference, and the ability to get a drop rate over 1% more likely, especially with cards, is insane. If any of these systems were to be in place, it would have to be A LOT lower that what your suggesting, especially with the combos due to how easy it it to keep kills going.

Overall, the intention is good but its A) Not fair on current players B) Less rewarding for future players and C) will promote specific build types. The current Elite mob system is a much better system and I don't think we need another one.

 

[Ardeof]

The game is completable without grinding, just significantly harder. Cards and loot are earned through dedication and luck, and increasing the chances removes the point of them being rare. The game is about grinding, grinding to become the best you can. Making the cards have a higher drop rate lowers the reward of not only the card, but of the self value.

Another thing is this would promote specific builds. Lighting spell (for combo) or Meteorite (For overkill) would be must-picks for grinding due to how easy it it so chain up enemies or its insane damage. The game currently promotes all play styles, the only deciding factor drop luck.

Also in a personal (and selfish) level, I grinded my ass off for 100%. I'd be really darn pissed if they added a system that made drops easier to get. My 100% would be worth so much less due to how much easier it would be to get.

To continue, 1% is a significant difference, and the ability to get a drop rate over 1% more likely, especially with cards, is insane. If any of these systems were to be in place, it would have to be A LOT lower that what your suggesting, especially with the combos due to how easy it it to keep kills going.

Overall, the intention is good but its A) Not fair on current players B) Less rewarding for future players and C) will promote specific build types. The current Elite mob system is a much better system and I don't think we need another one.

I don't know the math behind the skills. Someone would have to make a program to calculate the damage etc. while farming with each skill. I'd imagine skills such as heroic slam are very underwhelming compared to something like: whirlslash, flamethrower, ice spike, frosty friend, etc. The pay off is that heroic slam is much more reliable with bosses compared to most of those.

What the "overkill" thing would create is a stronger chance for either chain skills to have a slightly bigger chance of dropping loot at high levels, or a high damage skill to catch up to those farming skills. The downside is Frosty Friend farming would be pretty OP with the slam.

 

[Smallsplat]

I don't know the math behind the skills. Someone would have to make a program to calculate the damage etc. while farming with each skill. I'd imagine skills such as heroic slam are very underwhelming compared to something like: whirlslash, flamethrower, ice spike, frosty friend, etc. The pay off is that heroic slam is much more reliable with bosses compared to most of those.

What the "overkill" thing would create is a stronger chance for either chain skills to have a slightly bigger chance of dropping loot at high levels, or a high damage skill to catch up to those farming skills. The downside is Frosty Friend farming would be pretty OP with the slam.

You do know that numbers are shown when damaging? Heroic Slam at gold end game can EASILY get up to 2.5k damage, where as frosty friend I've only ever got up to about 500-ish. Flame thrower is a tick so the enemy would die before you got the full power of the flame thrower out, and I haven't used ice spike (ever) to really make a point on it.

With the Overkill, end-game would just make farming the lower levels so easy it would be boring. A rabbit I believe has about 100 health, and just a basic attack alone on my save can do 300+.

 

[Ardeof]

You do know that numbers are shown when damaging? Heroic Slam at gold end game can EASILY get up to 2.5k damage, where as frosty friend I've only ever got up to about 500-ish. Flame thrower is a tick so the enemy would die before you got the full power of the flame thrower out, and I haven't used ice spike (ever) to really make a point on it.

With the Overkill, end-game would just make farming the lower levels so easy it would be boring. A rabbit I believe has about 100 health, and just a basic attack alone on my save can do 300+.

This is ingame, with a character that I farmed with and such. A lot more than 500 with the frosty slam, to say the least.

 

[Smallsplat]

This just really proves my point about building specific builds. The only reason you have frost doing 1.5k (on average) damage w/ slam is because your items are pure Magic Damage. When I did a magic run I went heavily into cast speed and EP regen so I could ability spam. A build like this simply wouldn't work with an Overkill system due to it not doing as much damage (Altho being a VERY viable (and more fun) strat)

I did also note you had pre Tai-Ming gear, so your frosty friend would probably go up to 1.7k, which is still nothing compared to heroics slam 2.5k. Also, this system would again, cause people to complete the game until they start struggling first and THEN grind, so items such as the 2h craftable in Tai Ming is an easy way to feed an overkill system. The weapon has insane damage but it has the debuff of being attacked by a shadow guy, but most people would ignore that just to get that extra drop chance because of how strong it would be.

 

[KoBeWi]

To continue, 1% is a significant difference, and the ability to get a drop rate over 1% more likely, especially with cards, is insane.

It's all about numbers. If card drop rate is e.g. 1/300, it would change to 1/50 after dealing 500 overkill damage. But only if overkill was scaled linearly. No one said it can't be logarithmic, with diminishing results. Then going from 0 to 100 overkill would be more effective for your drop rate than from 100 to 200. Eventually you'd come to a point that there was no reason to get any stronger before starting to grind your item. Not to mention, that actual overkill could also count from a certain threshold, like only above 100.

I personally like things that increase drop rate, like luck stat or some bonuses. I don't really understand what is the problem about players going back later in game to early areas, when they have more luck. If they chose to skip the content for later, it's just the way they want to play the game. The thing is to not actually force anyone to play in a particular way, e.g. if luck or overkill were a thing, players should still have incentive to grind before they are over-powered. Hard difficulty is an example, because you eventually almost can't progress if you don't stop to get some cards or items.

 

[Ardeof]

This just really proves my point about building specific builds. The only reason you have frost doing 1.5k (on average) damage w/ slam is because your items are pure Magic Damage. When I did a magic run I went heavily into cast speed and EP regen so I could ability spam. A build like this simply wouldn't work with an Overkill system due to it not doing as much damage (Altho being a VERY viable (and more fun) strat)

I did also note you had pre Tai-Ming gear, so your frosty friend would probably go up to 1.7k, which is still nothing compared to heroics slam 2.5k. Also, this system would again, cause people to complete the game until they start struggling first and THEN grind, so items such as the 2h craftable in Tai Ming is an easy way to feed an overkill system. The weapon has insane damage but it has the debuff of being attacked by a shadow guy, but most people would ignore that just to get that extra drop chance because of how strong it would be.

Yeah I did 100% completion before the Tai Ming release with just a buff Frosty Friend and a bit of dabbling with Ice Spike. It's not absurd, but frosty friend is quite good at farming compared to heroic slam. Plus having that extra cushion of distraction makes up for loss of damage. If you watch a bit further, Frosty friend was doing 1.5k~2k damage. Yeah it's a lot less than heroic slam, but still viable because of its AoE. Also keep in mind Heroic Slam actually does something like 3~6 hits, so presumably the first attack would land which is much less than the total damage that Heroic Slam would do to a boss.

 

[Smallsplat]

It's all about numbers. If card drop rate is e.g. 1/300, it would change to 1/50 after dealing 500 overkill damage. But only if overkill was scaled linearly. No one said it can't be logarithmic, with diminishing results. Then going from 0 to 100 overkill would be more effective for your drop rate than from 100 to 200. Eventually you'd come to a point that there was no reason to get any stronger before starting to grind your item. Not to mention, that actual overkill could also count from a certain threshold, like only above 100.

I personally like things that increase drop rate, like luck stat or some bonuses. I don't really understand what is the problem about players going back later in game to early areas, when they have more luck. If they chose to skip the content for later, it's just the way they want to play the game. The thing is to not actually force anyone to play in a particular way, e.g. if luck or overkill were a thing, players should still have incentive to grind before they are over-powered. Hard difficulty is an example, because you eventually almost can't progress if you don't stop to get some cards or items.

You make a good point. Balance in this is what makes it viable in some way. I did a bit of testing and if I time it correctly w/ a crit I can do 2,200 damage with a silver level heroic slam. that is (assuming rabbits are 100 health) 2,100 overkill. There would need to be some limiting or scaling factor in this.

Maybe this can, instead of being a natural passive, turn into a card buff or a talent buff? That way people can go into it if it suits there play style. So like an overkill talent for people who love doing raw damage, and other ideas for other play styles. Such as:
For every 10 damage over an enemy's max health, increase drop rate by 0.1% per talent level
For every element spell used on an enemy, increase drop rate by 0.05% per talent level
Etc

 

[Own]

I dislike the overkill idea as it favors a few skills more than any.

I did propose something similar to combo a while back, though. Every time enemies respawn in an area you're fighting in, it makes them gradually stronger, or makes them respawn faster, or increases the enemy limit. Once you hit certain numbers, drop rates for items, coins, cards, etc begin to increase as well.

Of course, the only way that would be worthwhile is if you only saved progress by transitioning screens, and lost all gains made since your last screen transition if you died. A Risk vs Reward system. How much longer can you survive against the steadily empowered enemies, getting more and more items, but at the risk of being overwhelmed, dying and losing it all?

CrossCode does the whole 'lose progress made since screen transition' thing, which took some getting used to after SoG.