Jargalo
Rabby
Ok, scratch that I literally just beat her...
Version 0.660b
- Thread starter Teddy
- Start date
res7less
Giga Slime
Well, what do you know, every day's a school day. While googling how to properly translate "Bonsai", I learned that "Bonsai" is not a term for the tiny trees themselves, but rather for the art of growing them to be this way. So the correct term for the item would be a "Bonsai tree", not simply "Bonsai". To think I have been using the term wrong my entire life during all of the 2 or 3 occasions!
The G-Meister
Giga Slime
Oh wow, didn't realise that! I guess you learn something new every day 
Sairek Ceareste
Rabby
I think if the pushable statue was any more obvious it would need a blinking neon sign. Two statues, one has a down and right line of dirt. How did that not indicate that there was something worth inspecting there?
It evidently isn't "too obvious enough" if several people got stuck on that exact part. Not just people here, but a few other friends I talk to as well.
If you could examine it (the rubble), that would give more of a tell that there's something off about it, imo. Or something akin to that.
Well, going into this blind on Hard difficulty was pretty darn good challenge, even at level 28. Ditched using my silly lv70-something pet in favor a simple lv10 one (because otherwise its just throwing balance out the window) and wow, the boss gave me a run for my money and I really couldn't maintain upkeep well on the mobs after they started respawning. However, switching out my maxed Berserker Style build in favor of maxed Whirlslash fixed that somewhat. Titan's Throw seemed to have some decent usefulness here too.
Didn't dare attempt running through it alone on Hard on my level 19 character, lol
I'll be posting a somewhat large collection of minor visual bugs I found on the appropriate thread; haven't personally found anything major yet, everything feels pretty solid so far.
Also, its possible to get a pretty big amount of Defense now, but the question is whether or not having 150+ Def actually does anything for you compared to say, 80 or less
By the by, is the Echo of Madness' 2H katana drop not in yet? I remember reading about it on Vilya's blog, I farmed them for an hour straight and didn't find anything, then checked the bestiary and didn't see it on the drop list
Didn't dare attempt running through it alone on Hard on my level 19 character, lol
I'll be posting a somewhat large collection of minor visual bugs I found on the appropriate thread; haven't personally found anything major yet, everything feels pretty solid so far.
Also, its possible to get a pretty big amount of Defense now, but the question is whether or not having 150+ Def actually does anything for you compared to say, 80 or less
By the by, is the Echo of Madness' 2H katana drop not in yet? I remember reading about it on Vilya's blog, I farmed them for an hour straight and didn't find anything, then checked the bestiary and didn't see it on the drop list
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TsReaper
Boar
The music and the atmosphere in Tai Ming really impress me, and the story is also quite attracting.
Uh... But the dialogue translation tool seems to crash when I select "Tai Ming", while the misc tool seems to work fine.
The name of something that drops by Echo of Madness is also "small mushroom". Small mushroom every where
I find it a little difficult to translate "Plantae Hostilis". What is a "hostilis", or does this name have some other meanings?
Uh... But the dialogue translation tool seems to crash when I select "Tai Ming", while the misc tool seems to work fine.
The name of something that drops by Echo of Madness is also "small mushroom". Small mushroom every where
I find it a little difficult to translate "Plantae Hostilis". What is a "hostilis", or does this name have some other meanings?
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Edit, Character Stats:
Character Level: 23
Hitpoints: 904
Energy Points: 115
Attack DMG: 154
Attack SPD: 112%
Magic DMG: 362 (without potion)
Cast SPD: 143%
Critical Chance: 4%
Defense: 39
Shield Health: 350
Energy Regen: 100
Update: There seems to be a bug in Collector ID where changing/respeccing quickly will display the wrong stats and end up stacking somewhat. Unsure if this translates to a stronger character, but it's an odd bug.
Pet Stats:
Damage +16%
What I found was that spells like Frosty Friend are having difficulty doing well. Frosty Friend doesn't scale with Matk well at all. 10% more matk is about 30 more dmg per auto attack, and that's on a character that has almost 400 magic damage. Even the slam ability, which can't crit, only does about 1/4 of what Heroic slam can do. I also noticed that Frosty Friend doesn't get HP from the ice pendant, even though it suggests that it improves all of the ice abilities. While it does increase damage by ~10% on Frosty Friend, that extra 30 attack isn't going to help when the creature dies in the boss fight 100% of the time within a couple of moments.
I imagine the other abilities which don't scale well at all are having similar difficulties. To summarize, I spent about 40 minutes to an hour trying to kill the initial boss with Frosty Friend and Ice Spike. I switched to 2h Heroic Slam and defeated the boss effortlessly the first try.
Character Level: 23
Hitpoints: 904
Energy Points: 115
Attack DMG: 154
Attack SPD: 112%
Magic DMG: 362 (without potion)
Cast SPD: 143%
Critical Chance: 4%
Defense: 39
Shield Health: 350
Energy Regen: 100
Update: There seems to be a bug in Collector ID where changing/respeccing quickly will display the wrong stats and end up stacking somewhat. Unsure if this translates to a stronger character, but it's an odd bug.
Pet Stats:
Damage +16%
What I found was that spells like Frosty Friend are having difficulty doing well. Frosty Friend doesn't scale with Matk well at all. 10% more matk is about 30 more dmg per auto attack, and that's on a character that has almost 400 magic damage. Even the slam ability, which can't crit, only does about 1/4 of what Heroic slam can do. I also noticed that Frosty Friend doesn't get HP from the ice pendant, even though it suggests that it improves all of the ice abilities. While it does increase damage by ~10% on Frosty Friend, that extra 30 attack isn't going to help when the creature dies in the boss fight 100% of the time within a couple of moments.
I imagine the other abilities which don't scale well at all are having similar difficulties. To summarize, I spent about 40 minutes to an hour trying to kill the initial boss with Frosty Friend and Ice Spike. I switched to 2h Heroic Slam and defeated the boss effortlessly the first try.
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The G-Meister
Giga Slime
There's a limit to where the usual formula for defence goes out the window in favour of a much less effective one. This limit varies from attack to attack.Also, its possible to get a pretty big amount of Defense now, but the question is whether or not having 150+ Def actually does anything for you compared to say, 80 or less
The best way to find it out is to remove all DEF as physically possible (some cards will give you a permanent buff) and takes some hits from an enemy. Take the lowest value of damage you receive and the limit will be when your defence goes over this value. If you happen to have any extra DEF from cards, extrapolate that value up a bit, because your DEF will damp the base damage somewhat.
Past this limit having more DEF is still beneficial, but the amount of damage blocked is reduced significantly per point of DEF you have.
I've still yet to complete my study into this stuff. @Teddy, would I be right in saying this?
[Edit]: Oh also, some attacks are unaffected by DEF (mainly Guardian lasers).
Thanks for all the feedback, guys!
Those stats aren't final! I just copied the gas mask and removed the special effect..
We were worried that people would find it too trivial, but apparently this wasn't the case! I'm guessing it's because it's the first "what you change in the past can affect the future" mechanic. The idea of having the rubble be examinable with something like "The rubble of two statues are blocking your way! If only they had stood somewhere else..." (yeah I'll need to come up with something better) sounds pretty good to me!
DERP! I forgot to upload the Translation Suite update! It should be uploaded now!
I'm not sure "hostilis" is real Latin, but it's supposed to mean "Hostile Plant"! In the West, it's usual to have a Latin scientific name on plants and animals, so this is a play on that.
The diminishing return part is correct! Currently, the DEF uses the classic "survivability" method of determining efficiency, with 140 as target value. What this means is that for every 140 DEF, your effective HP is increased with 100 %. So if you have 500 HP, at 140 DEF you take damage as if you have 1000 HP, and at 280 DEF you would have 1500 HP.
Another way of describing it is damage is reduced by 50 % the first 140 DEF, 25 % more the next 140 DEF, and 140 more DEF on top of that would only yield 12.5 % more efficiency.
This is the way it works in most MOBAs and stuff, but I'm thinking of reworking it for this game, as I don't like stats that scale only through other stats... currently 50 DEF is always just as good, so the DEF-creep in the game really affects things, just like the ASPD creep (because 50 % more ASPD will always be as good and scale with ATK).
I might rework DEF to be more akin to what you described, namely it having some "max effect" depending on how strong the attack is.
Oni Mask is a strictly worse Gas Mask. Given how few face items there are in the game, I was hoping they would each do something different.
Those stats aren't final! I just copied the gas mask and removed the special effect..
We were worried that people would find it too trivial, but apparently this wasn't the case! I'm guessing it's because it's the first "what you change in the past can affect the future" mechanic. The idea of having the rubble be examinable with something like "The rubble of two statues are blocking your way! If only they had stood somewhere else..." (yeah I'll need to come up with something better) sounds pretty good to me!
DERP! I forgot to upload the Translation Suite update! It should be uploaded now!
I'm not sure "hostilis" is real Latin, but it's supposed to mean "Hostile Plant"! In the West, it's usual to have a Latin scientific name on plants and animals, so this is a play on that.
The diminishing return part is correct! Currently, the DEF uses the classic "survivability" method of determining efficiency, with 140 as target value. What this means is that for every 140 DEF, your effective HP is increased with 100 %. So if you have 500 HP, at 140 DEF you take damage as if you have 1000 HP, and at 280 DEF you would have 1500 HP.
Another way of describing it is damage is reduced by 50 % the first 140 DEF, 25 % more the next 140 DEF, and 140 more DEF on top of that would only yield 12.5 % more efficiency.
This is the way it works in most MOBAs and stuff, but I'm thinking of reworking it for this game, as I don't like stats that scale only through other stats... currently 50 DEF is always just as good, so the DEF-creep in the game really affects things, just like the ASPD creep (because 50 % more ASPD will always be as good and scale with ATK).
I might rework DEF to be more akin to what you described, namely it having some "max effect" depending on how strong the attack is.
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The G-Meister
Giga Slime
Oh, I was stating how the defence seems to work currently... Just look at this graph of minimum damage received (because the range is calculated off the minimum, rather than it being a + or -) by a Yeti slam against DEF. The blue dots are that plot and the orange dots are an extrapolated formula for the trend from 0 to 90 DEF. At 90 DEF (the base damage of the Yeti slam) the amount of damage received goes down much less per point of DEF.
Also, it has nothing to do with amount of damage taken hitting 40. The damage taken at base ATK with other attacks are not as rounded.
This effect is represented in every attack I've measured, including the Rabby bite, a Boar smash, a Frostling Snowball and a Frostling stick whack. So if you wanted it to work like this... it's already working like this
It's pretty useful because, for enemies with low ATK values like the Rabby, this effect kicks in quite quickly, meaning, even with top notch gear, I haven't had a Rabby attack do under 15 damage, but then if you are that far into the game the risk of being killed by Rabby is practically zero. People are more familiar with the game, HP is most likely very high and health orb drops from all the insta kills are fairly common.
res7less
Giga Slime
I think if the pushable statue was any more obvious it would need a blinking neon sign. Two statues, one has a down and right line of dirt. How did that not indicate that there was something worth inspecting there?
Interestingly enough, at least for me, it was not the "changing past affects future" mechanic that caused the brain fart. I was actually playing Lost Odyssey not so long ago, which basically had the same riddle involving a statue blocking a chest and two timelines. Here, I basically knew I had to change something in the past, but it was the how that I just didn't see. I was trying to find hidden entrances around those statues, was trying to whack them etc. I guess the difference between the two situations was that in Lost Odyssey the mechanic to push statues around was introduced in another dungeon before. Yes, it's the same as pushing blocks, but for some reason I was unable to make the connection. The fact that there is a path made me only think that it leads to a hidden entrance or something instead, which was entirely the wrong direction of thought. I would suggest to simply introduce pushing statues earlier by plainly making one block the way somewhere before - this way the misleading yellow path as "hint" won't be necessary anymore.
The G-Meister
Giga Slime
Having tried fighting the first boss on Hard, I'd say it's a good challenge - Assuming this is the same difficulty that it will be in the final release.
I like that you can damage her shield during her defensive phases, but this has some implications. Using 1H, often attempting an attack results in you stepping forward and hitting a fan, due to the small hit range. Using 2H, the slow attack speed makes it hard to get a hit off quickly without getting nabbed in the process.
But using ranged magic allows you to stand in the most defensive spots, where appropriate, and pummel the crap outta the shield, and using Plant Summon wisely can do a metric shit tonne of damage. However, you're then left with a deficit of MP for when you can damage her properly, so I guess it balances out for all three. But then it seems like a false positive, because I reckon the risk slightly outweighs the reward. Maybe I'll git gud and see the light.
I have a few complaints as well.
The amount of damage you can do with 1H in each situation varies a lot. For defensive phases, the spinning wheel which changes directions pretty much always gets me at least once, and I have no time to do any damage to the shield. The attack where she moves amongst various stationary fans is easy to get a load of hits in above half health, but almost impossible to do damage and not take any when below half health. The attack where the rings move inwards is hard enough when above half health, and becomes even more difficult when below half health.
For offensive phases, I'm practically running for the whole of the phase with two attacks and the phase with fans coming from one side. I can get a load of damage off with the pendulum (but not the dual) and the fan lines with gaps. It would be nice if these were evened out in a way.
My biggest complaint is - why can't we perfect guards the fans?! If you can deflect a punch from a mech 100 times your size, the flying swords of Teddy / Freddie and a headbutt from a fucking hydra, what makes these fans indestructible?! This fight would be much easier for a professional guarder like myself if we could. Even if the fans don't disappear, being able to time a perfect guard well would let me get a load more damage off in the offensive phases. It could work just like the Hydras - does standard damage to a shield if perfect guard, but breaks the shield otherwise.
I like that you can damage her shield during her defensive phases, but this has some implications. Using 1H, often attempting an attack results in you stepping forward and hitting a fan, due to the small hit range. Using 2H, the slow attack speed makes it hard to get a hit off quickly without getting nabbed in the process.
But using ranged magic allows you to stand in the most defensive spots, where appropriate, and pummel the crap outta the shield, and using Plant Summon wisely can do a metric shit tonne of damage. However, you're then left with a deficit of MP for when you can damage her properly, so I guess it balances out for all three. But then it seems like a false positive, because I reckon the risk slightly outweighs the reward. Maybe I'll git gud and see the light.
I have a few complaints as well.
The amount of damage you can do with 1H in each situation varies a lot. For defensive phases, the spinning wheel which changes directions pretty much always gets me at least once, and I have no time to do any damage to the shield. The attack where she moves amongst various stationary fans is easy to get a load of hits in above half health, but almost impossible to do damage and not take any when below half health. The attack where the rings move inwards is hard enough when above half health, and becomes even more difficult when below half health.
For offensive phases, I'm practically running for the whole of the phase with two attacks and the phase with fans coming from one side. I can get a load of damage off with the pendulum (but not the dual) and the fan lines with gaps. It would be nice if these were evened out in a way.
My biggest complaint is - why can't we perfect guards the fans?! If you can deflect a punch from a mech 100 times your size, the flying swords of Teddy / Freddie and a headbutt from a fucking hydra, what makes these fans indestructible?!
This fight would be much easier for a professional guarder like myself if we could. Even if the fans don't disappear, being able to time a perfect guard well would let me get a load more damage off in the offensive phases. It could work just like the Hydras - does standard damage to a shield if perfect guard, but breaks the shield otherwise.
Zenene
Green Slime
Unlike G, I'm not really a big fan of the first boss. I've spent the greater part of the last hour trying to beat her and I'm just having a miserable go of it. I'm only on normal mode so I can't really say how Hard mode goes, but it's surprisingly tough. And no, it isn't my gear; I checked, I was wearing some of the best in the game before starting this fight.
It wouldn't really be so bad except that it seems to be totally randomized. I can deal with a tough fight, but most of the attacks, while guided, are random in when they happen, and there's no way to know what's coming and, sometimes, there's not really a safe spot to not take a ton of damage in, which I really, really don't like. It would be a much better fight, to me, if there was some pattern of attacks we could learn, but so far, it only seems like her first two or so attacks are actually following a pattern and the rest are just kinda random. It doesn't feel like a very fair fight to me, in that sense. The other fights were tough, but there was a learnable pattern to them so you could figure it out, but there isn't a pattern to this one and that's very, very frustrating to me. I like patterned fights. ;-;
It wouldn't really be so bad except that it seems to be totally randomized. I can deal with a tough fight, but most of the attacks, while guided, are random in when they happen, and there's no way to know what's coming and, sometimes, there's not really a safe spot to not take a ton of damage in, which I really, really don't like. It would be a much better fight, to me, if there was some pattern of attacks we could learn, but so far, it only seems like her first two or so attacks are actually following a pattern and the rest are just kinda random. It doesn't feel like a very fair fight to me, in that sense. The other fights were tough, but there was a learnable pattern to them so you could figure it out, but there isn't a pattern to this one and that's very, very frustrating to me. I like patterned fights. ;-;
Jargalo
Rabby
Bugs I've Noticed:
-Oni Mask appears as a flower garland
-Mana's hair is mismatched (between sprite and portrait)
-The "small mushroom" thing (pointed out before)
-The Receptionist (at the library/citizenship office) replayed her dialogue when I talked to her after reopening the game (not too much of an issue, but...)
-Teleportation. (shouldn't it be blocked in the past, given that, say, the flying fortress didn't even exist back then?)
-Oni Mask appears as a flower garland
-Mana's hair is mismatched (between sprite and portrait)
-The "small mushroom" thing (pointed out before)
-The Receptionist (at the library/citizenship office) replayed her dialogue when I talked to her after reopening the game (not too much of an issue, but...)
-Teleportation. (shouldn't it be blocked in the past, given that, say, the flying fortress didn't even exist back then?)
Own
Moderator
So I noticed that stone enemies don't respawn if you never break them. So I lured them away and deactivated them, I already have theircard.
I thought, hey, what if madness enemies work the same? Let's corral!
They don't work the same. Oh god. There's like a dozen of them there layered and they keep on coming.
I thought, hey, what if madness enemies work the same? Let's corral!
They don't work the same. Oh god. There's like a dozen of them there layered and they keep on coming.
Will there ever be any rewards for playing in hard mode like more exp or more card drop rate? I was trying to grind the new mobs on hard mode but it was taking way too long and normal mode is just way easier with no drawbacks.
Also what are the numbers like on the echo of madness card? It only says higher damage to enemies with high defense so I don't know what I'm getting.
Also what are the numbers like on the echo of madness card? It only says higher damage to enemies with high defense so I don't know what I'm getting.
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The G-Meister
Giga Slime
Difficulty in any game is designed to provide replayability. Hard is intended for a second playthrough, to give a challenge to people who have already completed the game and know what's coming. And /beastmode on is intended for... well... madmen.